Marine Officer Programs

[jdfairman]

Hello All.
My name is Lieutenant Fairman, and I invite any of you who are interested in becoming a Marine Officer to post your question. I will do my best to answer it myself, and should I not have the knowledge, I will do my best to find out and get back with you.
I enlisted in the Marine Corps Reserves in '98 and worked as an FDC man for HQ Btry, 14th Marines throughout college. I was commissioned a second lieutenant through the PLC program on 01AUG02. I am currently in flight training pursuing those coveted wings of gold. I'm not trying to blow my own horn here, just wanted to give an idea of my background. SO... any questions concerning officer programs, fire away.

[HepCat]

What are the requirements, exactly for becoming an officer? Is it a certain degree? Some kind of officer training? A combo of the two? Just all the details you can spare, really would be cool. Thanks in advance.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Lt. Fairman,
I want to thank you for coming to this site to help the young wannabes out. There are scores of well educated enlisted men and women here, ready to do all we can for those wanting to enlist in the Marine Corps. But, there seems to be a lack of officers on the site. I for one am greatful. At one point, I was considering persuing a commission in the Marine Corps, and would have been most thankful to have someone like you to assist.

[Super Dave]

Semper Fi Lt.

Welcome aboard..

What are you going to be driving?

[kentmitchell]

Wondered what that hashmark was doing alongside the brown bar. Not quite a mustang but closer than most.
My hat's off to anyone who completes TBS. Best officers in the world come from there and I served under a few of them. Really looked up to them even when I was a salty E-4 with my own hashmark.

[jdfairman]

Well... I'm just now putting the finishing touches on API (aviation preflight indoctrination), the first phase of flight training. From here I;ll be going to Corpus Christi, TX for Primary, and it is there that the aircraft I'll be flying in the fleet will be determined.
As far as Hepcat's question goes, there are a myriad of ways to obtain a commission. The basic requirements are citizenship, a bachelor's degree and elgibility for a Secret clearance. Commissions may be obtained through PLC, OCC, one of the academies, NROTC, or MECEP. There are also a few senior SNCO's that are commissioned as Limited Duty Officers.
OCC (the Officer Candidates Course) is one of the more popular routes taken. If you already have a bachelor's degree, this is the way to go. College graduates will be sent to Officer Candidates School in Quantico, VA for a ten week course. Think of OCS as a ten-week, extremely intense job interview. You are graded on leadership, academics and physical fitness. (mostly on leadership). The method is that you will be put in various leadership billets that are about two weeks in duration throughout the course. (Candidate Platoon Commander, Candidate Company First Sergeant, Candidate Company Gunny, Candidate Platoon Sgt, etc.). Academics consists of alot of what is taught at boot camp (basic first aid, history) plus leadership, a little warfighting, basic tactics etc. Physical Fitness is extremely intense. Expect to run about five miles about six times a week plus upper body development, combat and endurance courses, circuit courses and more. Upon graduation, the OCS candidate is commissioned a second lieutenant and immediately transferred to TBS (The Basic School) which is a six month course where you learn how to function as a basic company grade officer.
PLC is similar. Of note for the PLC program is that you can apply for a guaranteed air, law, or ground contract. You can apply for the Platoon Leaders Course as soon as you are enrolled in college. If you are a freshmen or sophomore, you will be sent to two separate six week courses at Officer Candidates School during two of your college summers. Same as OCC only it is split into two sessions. PLC Combined (what I did) is for college juniors who apply. Its the same as OCC, only you complete the ten week session the summer of your junior year. In both programs, you will be commissioned a second lieutenant upon verification of graduation with a Bachelor's degree, and you will await further orders to TBS.

LAW STUDENTS!!! LISTEN UP!!! Your little career path is going to be a little different for PLC and OCC. If you are in the JAG program, you will be attending law school and completing the bar exam before being sent to TBS. You don't get paid while you are doing this, but you do accumulate Time in Service and Time in Grade. Pretty Cool huh? My roommate at TBS was a JAG officer, and he was already a Captain while he was at TBS.
NROTC... Well, of course you have to find a college that offers and NROTC program. You will complete their program of instruction as you are going through college, and at some point you will select Marine Option. At this point, you will be sent to the six week bulldog course at Officer Candidates School.
Academy guys (West Point, Anapolis, etc) are commissioned as Second Lieutenants upon graduation from the academy. No OCS. Sent directly to TBS.
MECEP students. MECEP commissions Marines from the enlisted ranks. You put in a package through your chain of command, and if selected will be sent to college on the Marine Corps' dime (oorah) and paid while you are there. Upon graduation with a Bachelor's, you head off to the afore mentioned six-week bulldog course at OCS, commission upon graduation from there and head to TBS.
As far as LDO's (Limited Duty Officers) are concerned, I am going to have to look that one up because I have met very few of them, and the ones I have met were Navy guys on the General Aviation (Ground Support) side. I know we have them in the Corps; I just don't know much about them. Give me a couple days and I'll find out.
Anyways, Hepcat, hope that clears things up a little bit for you. Let me know if there is anything else I can do.
Some good websites are www.Marines.com, www.ocs.usmc.mil, www.marineofficercandidate.com, and of course to be put in touch with your local OSO (Officer Selection Officer) call 1-800-MARINES.
On a side note, since I started the post, I recieved alot of questions in my PM box. I don't mind answering them, but it is more beneficial to post your questions on the forum where everybody can read them, since many of you have the same question. However, if it is something you truly don't feel comfortable asking on an open forum, I will be more than happy to answer you with a PM.
Semper Fi,
LT Fairman

[RoboRobinson17]

Lt. Fairman,

Thanks for the prompt response. It was very helpful and informative as to the many different ways to obtain a commision.

SF,

Joe

[WMjets]

Good idea, sir. I was always surprised that there weren't more officers on this post.

I am a midshipman in Marine option (MO) NROTC at the University of Michigan - Ann Arbor, so I can help with the more specific questions about NROTC and about the MECEP program, because they have a very similar program they go through with us. So if I don't know the answer to a MECEP question, I can talk to one of Marines here that are in that program.

Quick overview: With a (MO) NROTC scholarship, they will pay for tuition for four years (in special cases five years), give you a book allowance of $300 per term, and a living allowance of $250 per month, which increases each year. You go on cruises each summer, and the summer before your senior year you go to Bulldog, which is the six week version of OCS. Upon graduation you're commissioned as a second lieutenant.
FYI: It's a common misconception that you can go in with a navy option scholarship and easily transfer to Marine option. This is NOT true, transfering is a long, difficult process, and it's actually easier to just apply for a Marine option scholarship in the first place!

Like the Lt., I prefer to answer your questions on the forum.

Jo

[jdfairman]

Thanks for the quick response WM. Looks like you saved the bacon as far as the NROTC info. I was always under the impression you enrolled in NROTC and selected the Marine option after the fact. Thanks for weighing in and steering us in the right direction. I'll go ahead and edit my former post as well.

[Caesar Augustus]

hey JD your links have comma's at the end so they do not work. Just letting you know.

[RoboRobinson17]

How about "Lt. Fairman", or "sir"? I don't know about you, but those sure as h3ll sound like a proper form of respect to show a Leader of Marines. Use your head. A lack of attention to detail will get you or a member of your squad killed. You've posted alot; don't start becoming part of the "10%" of the poolees that we have on the boards that are turds now. Step up to the plate and lead.

Semper Fi,

Joe

[jdfairman]

I tried to edit the post earlier to clear up the links as well as correct some bum scoop I gave on NROTC (see above posts from WMJets). Unfortunately, posts are only correctable for six hours after they are posted. It looks like you're just going to have to type or copy/paste them into the address bar.

[Caesar Augustus]

Sorry about the lack of respect earlier.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention RoboRobinson

[WMjets]

Sir, as far as how to apply, possible candidates fill out a form with about a million pages (like most paperwork :) ), which is the same for Navy and MO (Marine option). The differences are that in the form there is a question that simply asks whether you want to be a Navy or Marine option, MOs take a PFT (your score is factored into your application), and the overall process for MOs is harder even though they use the same form.

Also, if you apply and don't get accepted into the program, you can go "College Program". In this case, you do everything with the NROTC battalion like the scholarship students do, but you don't go on the cruises or get your tuition paid for. You do get a living allowance (which is basically your paycheck) like they do. More people go college program than start with scholarships, but those on this program can pick up a scholarship if they are found to be worthy. You can talk to your local recruiter about this. He may not know very much about the program, since they typically work with enlisted, but he'll be able to point you to the right people, or you can also check out the Lieutenant's earlier post. He had some good websites and other ways to get in touch with the right people.

As far as the recruiters, we've all heard the horror stories, but the recruiters I talked to (in Saginaw, MI) were very honest with me. Just remember that even though they are typically good, honest people, they are still trying to sell you something. If something sounds suspicious, it never hurts to double check, and right here is a good place to do it.

Jo

[jdfairman]

Hey everybody... Today was interesting. Just got done with the infamous Helo-dunker. For the uninitiated, this contraption is a mock-up of a CH-46 that is suspended over a tank. You strap in, and it is lowered into the pool where it submerges and flips upside down (ditched helicopters tend to do that because they are so top heavy); then you and all your little buddies get unhook and swim out the specified exits. Not exciting enough?!! Thats OK, because after a couple rides you get to do it blind-folded.
It was a blast, and yeah... I know it has nothing to do with this thread, but hey... its my thread and rank hath its privileges right?:D
Keep the questions coming. Semper Fi.

[Caesar Augustus]

Yes it does sir.:D You're entitled to speak on whatever you want:) Not to mention its something interesting to hear that I'll never attempt. Here's a question. What do the OCC people skip out of OCS seeing how they only attend 1 10wk course while the PLC go to two six week courses? Couldn't think of anything else to ask but I didn't want to disobey a direct order:D

[WMjets]

You can talk about whatever you want, sir, especially that since I want to be a pilot ;).

[jdfairman]

The PLC program has two options. (See earlier post) Freshmen and Sophomores are generally sent to two separate summer terms of six weeks. These courses are known as PLC Juniors and PLC Seniors.
Juniors and Seniors (College juniors and seniors... not to be confused with the PLC juniors and seniors courses) are sent to what is known as PLC Combined. It is a ten week course identical to the OCC class. Remember... OCC is for those who already have a degree.
As for the reasoning why one course takes 12 weeks total while the other is 10 weeks total.... keep in mind that candidates returning for PLC Seniors have been away from OCS for one or two years, and they have probably forgotten a few things. It probably takes about a week to get everybody spun up to where they need to be to pick up where they left off in the PLC juniors course.
I know that all this is about as clear as mud, so if there are still questions, keep asking them.

[jdfairman]

WMJets... In your NROTC program, are there gauranteed aviation spots, ground spots, and law spots? I was wondering, because I've spoken to several Mids, and it seemed like a few of them had their air contract in the bag. But then again, one of my roommates at TBS went through regular MOS selection like everybody else.

[WMjets]

As I understand it, sir, if your grades in college are good and you're performing well in the battalion, you could get a guarentee, but this guarentee can be taken away if you screw up. The difficulty of the selection process varies depending on demand for certain types of officers. If you don't get a gurantee, I'm pretty sure you go through the normal selection process like everyone else.

Jo

[gemntx]

Thanks to jdfairman and WMjets for taking this post to task.

I would like to help, but any information I give would be outdated (25+ years). I came through the NROTC scholarship program. I was one of the fortunate ones that switched from Navy option to Marine option. I received a lot of "special attention" from the MOI and AMOI. When I went through they (USMC) had an aviation guarantee. Does that program still exist?

Keep up the good work, it's valuable information.

jdfairman: Enjoy your time in P-cola, it's hard to believe that they actually pay you to do that. Just remember, the reason you're up in the air is to support that guy on the ground.

WMjets: Work hard and stay focused, your opportunity will come. Remember to have fun in school, get the education, the degree will follow.

Glenn McGlaun
Phrogs Phorever

[WMjets]

Welcome aboard, sir.

Yes, the aviation guarantee does still exist; that is what I'm trying to get. I don't yet know a lot about the process, only what I've been told, which is basically what I wrote in my last post. How did it work when you went through? I'm also curious to know how the whole NROTC program has changed since you went through. Thank you for your input, sir.

Jo

[jdfairman]

Major GMENTX, I notice you are from the colony sir... my neck of the woods. I graduated from Denton High School and went on to Tarleton State. My old reserve unit is located at NAS JRB.
Anyways sir, when I went through TBS last fall, there were only two or three open spots for pilots and NFO's. Most of the spots are already filled by gauranteed contracts.

Semper Fi Sir...
Welcome Aboard

[gemntx]

When I went through the program, we had to take the AQT/FAR (Aviation Qualifying Test/Flight Aptitude Rating). I believe it was scored on a scale of 0-7. In order to be considered you had to score at least a 3/3. Since I had been in Aerospace Engineering, it was not that difficult. As you had mentioned in your earlier post, the underlying criteria is "Needs of the Marine Corps". Remember that phrase, you will hear it often in your career. Part of the equation is your performance at the unit. Personal performance is an important factor in everything that you will do in the Marine Corps.

As far as how the NROTC program changed? If I had to apply using today's standards, I probably would not get into the program. I was fortunate to go to Texas A&M and participate in the unit there. At the time (mid seventies) the Vietnam war had just ended and the military was drawing down. America still needed young, new officers. However, while I was at school I knew several Air Force cadets (Pilot designates) who were released from their contracts and found themselves looking for a job two weeks before graduation. I'm pleased to say that the Navy/Marine Corps did not have this problem. At the time the NROTC unit at school was in fact expanding. I just attended the 25th year reunion on the Company that I was a member. It was quite interesting to be back on campus. I've gotten a little long winded here. Bottom line, the cadets today are smarter and it appears that they rely on that intelligence a little more than raw strength and motivation.

Glenn

[WMjets]

Now, sir, they have the ASTB (Aviation Selection Test Battery). It's a timed test with six subjects: Math Verbal, Mechanical Comprehension, Spatial Appreciation, Aviation and Nautical Biographical Inventory (not graded), and Aviation Interest (graded?). The minimums are: Pilot-3/4/4, NFO-3/4/3, and USMC-4/6/4 (I'm not sure what these mean...). I learned this stuff from a Navy lieutenant here at the unit, so I don't know the specifics as far as the USMC (i.e. is the USMC score the minimum regardless of what you do?). Your GPA is also 45% of your selection package, reccomendation of your Naval Science professor is 10%, and I'm assuming that all of the other 45% is the ASTB, but they didn't say.

If you hadn't already guessed, I'm only a 4/c (fourth class - basically means I'm a freshman) and I don't know a whole lot about this yet. :D

Jo

[WMjets]

I did have another question, sir. How did your week then compare to mine now?

MY WEEK
Monday ~ 0545-0700: Battalion PT
Tuesday ~ 0545-0700: Remedial PT (PT for Navy options who failed their last PRT and optional for non-remedial midn -mmmmmmmmmmmmmiiMOs who fail PFT are switched to Navy option)
Thursday ~ 0545-0700: Remedial PT
mmnnii''''''~ 1530-1630: Battalion Close Order Drill
mmnnii''''''~ 1630-1730ish: Marine PT (MECEPs and MOs only)
Friday ~ 0600-0700: Marine Training (class to help prepare us for Bulldog/OCS)

Jo

[gemntx]

Let me preface my comment with this statement: The Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M is like no other. Yes I am biased in this opinion and make no apology for it. With that out of the way, the different service branches (Army, Air Force and Navy/Marine) did not get involved with the daily operations of the Corps. Our schedule was fairly easy to understand:

0530 Reveille
0600 Freshmen fell out for inspection and testing of knowledge.
0645 March to chow
0700 Breakfast
0800 Rooms had to be ready for inspection
1630 Unit activities (PT, Drill etc) This was the time that extracurricular organizations would meet (Drill Team, Recon Plt, Ranger Plt, etc)
1730 Formation/March to chow
1800 Evening Meal
1900 Call to Quarters (All underclassmen at their desk studying)
2200 Taps/Lights out

This is what I remember from my freshman year. Obviously the upperclassmen had different privileges in regards to Call to Quarters etc. When we had to run the PFT it was usually in the morning before breakfast. We would get the classroom prep for Bulldog during our Junior year with a Pre-Bulldog training period after finals of the Spring semester and before we shipped to Quantico.

Stick with it, you're going to do fine. Michigan is a good school. One of my Co-Pilots was from Michigan, and aerospace engineer. He's now flying for United. Outstanding pilot, officer and gentleman.

Good Luck
Glenn

[WMjets]

I don't know how you had time for all of that, sir. Lack of time is my biggest problem, and that would still be true if I wasn't in NROTC! I'm still "adjusting" to college life... or least I hope that's all it is. Battalion functions don't take a lot of time here, especially compared when you were in the program, but U of M likes to monopolize on my time! :)

Jo

[acts837]

Chiming in here on the NROTC comments. College Program students do not get any funds from Uncle Sam until they get selected for advance standing (usually Junior year).

Marine Option (MO) Scholarship is by far the best way to go if your parents aren't rolling in the dough and you have good grades/SAT scores. College Program students can get selected for a MO Scholarship if they post a high PFT and good grades their freshman year. Competition is tough that is why I encourage Midshipman to take school serious.

[Caesar Augustus]

You wouldn't happen to be a JAG would you Acts837? Just wondering because thats what I plan on becoming and if you are I would pepper you with questions:)

[acts837]

Sorry not a JAG. Was an 0311 for 9 years and have been an 0402 for 9.5 years. Doing my last tour now as a Marine Officer Instructor (MOI).

[Caesar Augustus]

Ahh ok. Well anything that you can think of that may be of help to me or any of the rest of us aspiring officers would be appreciated sir

[WMjets]

Thank you, Captain for chiming in about College Program. I must have been mistaken. Thank you for correcting me.

If you don't mind me asking sir, what college are you the MOI for? How does the schedule there differ from mine (see my previous post)? I always wondered how standardized the program was.

Jo

[acts837]

Auburn (http://www.auburnmarines.com) <- take a look.

The MECEP/Marine Options are in the NROTC Battalion; however, I seperated them out into our own Platoon (Charlie Co, 2nd Platoon). Almost everything we do is specifically geared towards value-added, Marine specific training. We are trying to create an environment that closely resembles the fleet. I was a MECEP at OU from 91-94 and I can honestly say that Auburn has a very demanding program. Right now we have 34 bodies in the Marine Platoon.

[Sixguns]

Hey Skipper (ACTS837),

Congratulations on your years of service and what I am sure has been a rewarding and enjoyable career. Are you planning on sticking around after pinning on Major or are you heading for retirement!!!

SF,

SIXGUNS

[acts837]

About 95% sure I'll punch at 21 (which will give me 2 years TIG as Major) and then start another career. I will be the first to admit that Corps has been good to me.

[firstsgtmike]

If I owned this site, had a computer crash and could only save one post and its threads

THIS would be the one I felt worth saving.

[MarineAV04]

Hi! I am currently a highschool senior. I have made the mistake of applying for the Navy ROTC scholarship and not selecting MO. What can I do about this now? Should I try to correct this now or wait until college? Thanks for the help!

[MAJMike]

Gentlemen, Marines and Poolees:

A little scoop on the PLC (Platoon Leaders Class) program. As a college undergraduate you can opt for two six week courses (one must be prior to the summer between your junior and senior years - ie: summers after both your sophomore and junior years). It's the curriculum of TBS (The Basic School) spread over two summers, with a couple of extra weeks added that are necessary for paperwork, and getting back up to speed for the second summer session. You'll go to Quantico and get paid about $3500 for each summer. Your expenses to and from Quantico are paid. You can also receive a monthly stipend in the neighborhood of $300-$350 per month during the school year - but I believe that this is only after completeing the first six week PLC session (I could be wrong on this detail - it's been a few months since I reviewed the specs). This means that your "pay" during your junior and senior years in college can be in the neighborhood of $7,000 per year - not bad while you are still in school. You are commissioned a 2nd. LT upon college graduation. This gives you some TIG (Time in Grade) over those who will elect to attend the 10 week TBS course following graduation as your date of rank/commission will be earlier.

PLC is a great program and I urge anyone in college who is interested in becoming a Marine Officer to discuss it with their local Officer Recruitment Officer.

MR Ventura
MAJ USMCR
1968-1975

[MAJMike]

LT Fairman:

Am I to assume that your present duty station is P'Cola? "Fun in the Sun?"

I have fond memories of P'Cola circa 1969 as both Marine and Naval aviators started down the path to Wings of Gold there.

I regret the passing of a legendary P'Cola Naval/Marine flight institution this past year. The (in)famous Trader Jon's - THE classic "watering hole" closed. Along with it went a ton of Navy/Marine flight memorabilia and a couple of C-5s worth of memories.

My best to you in your pursuit of your Wings of Gold. When you earn them, wear them with the honor that they deserve!

Former Marine Aviator and A6 driver.

MR Ventura
MAJ USMCR
1968-1975

[MAJMike]

Poolees:

As PFC Roborobinson17 stated earlier in this thread, when addressing or responding to an officer, your comment or question should begin with the word "Sir."

You might as well learn this now.

MR Ventura
MAJ USMCR
1968-1975

[MEU Marine]

Great interchange guys. Specifically good gouge about the MO... I felt that pain years ago at Duke when, realizing that I could never be a squid, I applied for MO only to be turned down twice in a row because my GPA was low (realizing I WAS at Duke, I was happy to be on track to graduate). However, I managed to pull up the GPS with the requisite fluff courses (Intro to... everything) and got accepted the semester before OCS. Many times I have seen the scene played out in my head where I could just have 'checked the box' for MO vice Navy Option- it's so simple then but sooo painful later. Anyway, I made it thru OCS, TBS a few other schools and 7 deployments so here I am today 15 years later.

You guys hit the nail on the head about little Officer Involvement here. However, in defense of my much-maligned Field Grade peers, most of us (me included) have family, kids, work and tons of stuff that keeps us off the computer during leisure time. No excuse for gaffing off an opportunity to 'mentor', so I will come online a few times a week as possible in case you want the advice of us 'older, mature, not quite yet broken' Officers of Marines. In the interim, the Lt and the Midshipman are doing just fine fielding all questions. And to think, I would have been off drinking and chasing girls if I were a Mid or Lt again....

Semper Fi Lads.

[jdfairman]

Dear Sir, Thanks for the good scoop on the money available during college while completing the PLC program. I wish I had applied for all the available funds.
For those wishing to apply, do your research and make sure you know about all of them. Like the Major said, there's alot out there.

[Caesar Augustus]

Sir, Maybe I misunderstood but when you said that it was the curriculum from TBS spread out, I thought that it was OCS split into two six week course. In no way am I trying to correct you sir, just trying to get my information straight

Caesar

[Caesar Augustus]

Sir, also once you are enrolled in the PLC do they have regular meetings like they do in DEP. Also is just up to the OSO to determine whether or not you go to mini OCS?

Caesar

[acts837]

OCS and TBS are two very distinct animals. Yes, some of the same material is covered but way more indepth at TBS. I'll being TAD to OCS this summer so I'll let you know if it has changed from what I remember.

[Caesar Augustus]

Thats what I thought Sir, I was just making sure I had my facts straight. Thank you for taking the time answer our questions.

[jdfairman]

I doubt you'll be having many meetings like the ones in the DEP when you enroll in PLC, but it will most likely differ from office to office. My OSO office was out of Dallas, and we had very few get togethers other than the Marine Corps Ball and pre-OCS.

[MAJMike]

Mr. Augustus -

You are CORRECT and I am responsible for a typo. I typed "TBS" in the post above when I meant to type "OCS." Thank you for pointing it out!

PLC COVERS OCS in two 6 week programs and you are commissioned upon graduation.

MR Ventura
MAJ USMCR
1968-75

[Caesar Augustus]

Dear Sir, No problem on pointing out the mistake although it was more out of confusion that I pointed it out. Just a question for all of the officers, what is the Marine Corps ball like?

[Sgtj]

Sir(s) Sgt Jolly here, I was wondering what you recommend the 6 weeks or 10 weeks, I am deciding between the two right now. My OSS is sort of pushing for the (2) 6 week program...

[acts837]

I'm not an OSO but from my understanding you start getting monthly $$ after you complete your first PLC summer. Hence, I would go to the (2) 6 week program.

[acts837]

Caesar Augustus - Not easy to describe what a Marine Corps Birthday Ball is like because no two are the same. I attended my 18th Ball last month and I can say that it was a very rewarding experience. My opinion has changed over the years -- I now feel very honored just to be able to attend because one day soon it will all be over for me.

[Caesar Augustus]

Sir, I thought that even once you are no longer an active duty Marine that you could attend the ball. I was under the impression that current and former(for lack of a better term) Marines were welcome and that the oldest Marine always passed the sword down to the youngest Marine.

[jdfairman]

I chose the ten week course. Both have their advantages. The main one with going for ten weeks is that you complete OCS one shot one kill. Taking the other route gets you more dollars. Thats what it basically comes down to.
As far as the Ball, it really depends on the unit you are with and how much effort the Ball reps put into it. If you're in a tight unit, rest assured you're going to have a blast. Most start with a cocktail hour, then Officer's Call is sounded, dinner is served, and the birthday ceremony is carried out with the cake and General Lejeune's message. Its a pretty neat ceremony. Lots of history behind it. After that, the party gets underway.
Please remind me if I forget anything Gentlemen. Flight school is underway and my brain is generally fried by the end of the day.

[Caesar Augustus]

Cocktail hour wouldn't be any fun for me seeing how I'm such a youngen:). I'll only be 17 when I graduate from boot camp. I've heard that an advantage of doing the 2 six week courses is that you arent as likely to get hurt because of the intermissions and if you do get hurt you only have to tough it out a couple of weeks instead of several.

[WMjets]

I attended my first Birthday Ball on 7 Nov this year. I was the youngest, so I was in the ceremony. I had been to a ceremony before, but it was kind of a mini one, not a Ball. It was at a poolee meeting a couple years ago. It was a great experience and I'm happy that I went. Don't worry, I'm only 18, but I still enjoyed cocktail hour... no cocktails required :).

Jo

[acts837]

True, once a Marine always a Marine; however, sometimes things aren't so simple. We extend an invitation to the Marine Corps League members in our area but some units may not.

[Caesar Augustus]

Ahh. Down here We have a big to do. If you went downtown you would see current and past Marines all in their dress blues. I think they had the ceremony at the Bass Hall this year. To say the least a lot of us poolee's went downtown just to see the new and old generations of Marines

[mtwhite]

Could an Officer or anyone help with the following questions.

I have 3yrs. of college and I want to join up. Should I go reserves and finish college then try to get the commission???

or should I go active and try to finish will serving active duty then get a commission??

Also can you have MOS 0311 in the reserves???:qmark:

If anybody could help me promptly I would be deeply greatfull.
Because I want to join your corp!!!

P.S. I have no R.O.T.C. training.
MY e-mail is posted if you prefer

[jdfairman]

Yes.... you can be an 0311 in the Reserves. Whether you join the Reserves or not is completely up to you. I found it to be very rewarding, and I think I am a better officer for having done it. However, if you only have three years left in college and you are CERTAIN that you want to make becoming a Marine Officer your goal, then it may not be the most direct route.Also, switching to active duty from the Reserves is not that easy. You don't just walk into admin and tell them you want to go active duty. Most of the time its a long difficult process, and theres no guarantee you'll get it. If I were you, I would seek out the Officer Selection Officer in my area and tell them I was interested in becoming a Marine Officer. They will give you information on the best way to go about achieving this goal.

[acts837]

Am I to understand that you are a Junior? If so my advice would be PLC; hence, contact the Officer Selection Officer in your area. What college do you attend?

[MAJMike]

Soooo many questions! Here's a few answers:

1) YES, you can have an 0311 MOS in the reserves, BUT - you have to belong to a unit that has 0311s. In other words, you have to join a reserve unit with infantry line companies. If your reserve unit is a comm unit or an engineering unit or part of the air wing, then there will not be any 0311 MOSs available. Even in an infantry unit, there are "slots" for the various necessary MOSs. When you enlist in that unit, you enlist in that slot - so unless you are enlisting for an 0311 slot, your aren't going to get it.

2) Commissioning - As stated elesewhere in this thread, PLC (Platoon Leader's Class) is probably the best way to earn a a commission out of college. You get OCS "out of the way" while an undergraduate and receive your commission upon graduation.

3. Two six week vs one 10 week PLC summer program. First of all, check your school schedule to see if you can fit in a 10 week PLC course between the end of spring semester or quarter and the beginning of fall semester or quarter. Understand that the Corps schedules PLC courses on THEIR schedule, not yours. For instance, a PLC class may not begin until 15 June - could you do a ten week course and be back on campus for the beginning of your fall semester? Personally, I like the two six week courses (not an option when I did it more than 30 years ago!). It fits into your summer "break" better AND you get paid for both summers and are also eligible for a monthly stipend during the school year. You can make upwards of $13,000 from the summer of your sophomore year through graduation if you qualify for all the stipends and max your summer pay. Probably more than you would make during the typical "summer job" over two summers.

4). As LT. Fairman accurately points out, it is NOT a seamless transition from the reserves to regulars in the officer corps. "Regular" slots depend on a combination of a lot of variables - retention of current regular officers in the MOS field; the CORPS need for regular officers in the MOS field; where YOU rank among reserve officers attempting to become regular officers. And, as a regular officer, there will be a point in your career wheree you may need to decide if you want to stay in your MOS or move into the admin side of the Corps. The further you get up the MOS pyramid, the fewer slots available for promotion and retention and the more competitive it becomes.

5) Like virtually every school in the Corps, including Recruit Training, there are a limited number of slots. PLC is no different. An OSO may "guide" you to a ten week PLC course because there is a need to fill those slots as demand for the 6 week course may be greater. OSOs are like enlisted recruiters in that they have slots to fill - slots that are specific positions in specific classes.

6) The Ball - whether a "formal" ball in dress/mess or a more casual environment, you can ALWAYS find a Marine Corps Birthday celebration with former Marines. This year I did NOT attend a formal ball, although the local (Atlanta) Marine Unit (MAG 42) extends an invitation to all former Marines ( I was out of town on business on that date) and opted for a well-known annual celebration at a local watering hole a few days before November 10. I was dressed casually, although I wore my old CWU-45 flight jacket with appropriate Marine Corps aviation patches. There were several officer and enlisted (active duty, reserve and retired) Marines in dress blues and some in Alphas. I spent an enjoyable evening (perhaps the best "ball" I've ever had!) at the bar swapping sea stories with two other "former" aviators - one in civvies, a retired LtCol, and the other in his Alphas - with two stars on his collar - MajGen Larry Taylor. The "youngest-oldest" cake ceremony was observed and all the other traditions of a more formal ball. I've been to formal $75 a ticket balls and less formal celebrations. It's not the type of "ball" - it's the Marines attending that make it worthwhile.

7) You do not need ROTC training to be eligible for PLC.

8) The BEST scoop on PLC and any other officer programs come from you local or regional OSO (Officer Selection Officer). Look it up on the net, or contact a local recruiter for the name and location of the nearest OSO. Many are located in college towns near the larger universities.

MR Ventura
MAJ USMCR
1968-1975

[gatormatt]

Caesar Augustus, I'm going the JAG route as well. Last summer I attended PLC Juniors. If you want to get PLC law contract you first need to get accepted into an ABA accreditted law school. Until then you just attended OCS under a ground contract. There is also a minimal LSAT score requirement. I was a junior last summer and was still allowed to attend the PLC 2 6 week option rather than the 10. My OSO recommended this option because the fallout rate is much less. With the 10 week program injuries tend to add up.

As for money, the first year after you complete any training you receive $300 per month. Each year in school thereafter, you monthly stipend increases $50. This adds additional time to your contract but I believe it is only 6 months. While in law school I will apply for CTAP (college tuition assistance program) which will pay $5200 a year.

For the gentleman who have attended OCS, is the blue knowledge that was used for PLC Juniors the same as is used for Seniors. We did not cover all the chapters and I was thinking I could save some sleep by answering questions in the chapters we did not cover, before I head back next summer.

I appreciate all the information that is being shared.

Matt

[Caesar Augustus]

Gator-I'm going to do the 2 six week courses during my fresh and soph year. Mainly because of the money and fewer injuries. What was the first incriment of OCS like. Don't you receive 7000 for tuition after the first incriment?

[gatormatt]

Caesar- I believe you can get the CTAP while you are in undergrad, but by doing that you cannot get it when you go to law school. Since I only have one more year in undergrad, it makes more since to postpone it for law school and get it for three years instead of one. Also, I believe if you accept CTAP as an undergrad, your time in service resets to the date of your graduation, rather than the date you first attended OCS.

As far as the 2 six week courses go. Most people that do that attend the PLC juniors as a fresh. or soph and then attend seniors as a senior.

I went to first increment for Juniors. It started May 25th and ended July 3. It rained probably 80% of the days I was there, which is supposedly very unusual. I would recommend attended first increment because the weather is cooler, not much, but every bit helps. Many candidates complained about the humidity, I from Florida though so it wasn't really that bad. The main problem I had was on the humps. I'm only 5'8'' so I was always in the rear with the rest of the "little ones". Also being from Florida I've never really hiked much in the hills so that was difficult. Lately I've been doing 30 minutes on a treadmill at max incline after I workout.

Another thing that I wish I would have learned before I went was some close order drill. I was the second candidate in teh platoon to be candidate platoon sergeant and I did not have a clue what foot to call anything on.

Basically it was the best experience of my life. Hated it while I was there but i can't wait to go back to seniors. July 4th was a lot different after I got back and I can see why the men and women on this board are so proud to be Marines. Can't wait until I can join them.

If you have anymore questions just let me know.

Matt

[Caesar Augustus]

I will be areservist by then so hopefully the physical part wont be near as bad. I'd rather get it over with my first two years. Drill and humping shouldn't be a problem since I will have been done with boot camp for about a year and a month by the time I'd attend the first incriment. I was under the impression that you only started getting TIS once you were commisioned not once you finished OCS. Then in law school you get TIS and may finish TBS as a Captain

[jdfairman]

Thanks Gatormatt for the info. Its good to have someone aboard who is in the know about the JAG side of the house.

[gatormatt]

Ceasar Augustus, I'm not really sure what TIS is so i can't really comment on that part. As far as finishing TBS as a Captain, my OSO said it possible but not real likely. He said that you might get Captain within your first year after TBS. Some officers I know that are in law school now made 1st Lt. just before they began their 3rd year.

Your welcome for the info Sir (jdfairman). I don't know everything, but I've been trying to learn all there is about JAG. Are you stationed in Pensacola or is that where you are from?

Matt

[acts837]

TIS = time in service
TIG = time in grade

In my TBS class we had a PLC Lawyer pin on Capt.

[jdfairman]

I'm actually in Corpus Christi, TX for Primary. Was in P-cola for API. Guess I need to change my profile.

[gemntx]

Welcome Back to Texas!

Good Luck in Primary. I hope you have time to enjoy the beach, from sea level instead of 1500'.

Glenn

[jdfairman]

Yeah right sir. With all this studying, about the most I see of the beach is when I'm 1/2 wingtip distance off of it and headed to the training area. Primary is a blast. I still can't believe I get paid to do this. My onwing is also an instructor for the OCF (Out of Control Flight) portion of the IP course. I can always tell there's something fun in store when he says, "Hey, wanna see something kinda crazy?" The other day, he put the plane in a cross-controlled departure. I think it was accelerated as well. It was pretty wild. He followed that with a couple of loops and a barrel roll. About 15 minutes later, I was feeling a little weird. I guess it takes that long for your stomach to realize things aren't as they should be. But, I still managed to retain my cookies, and it was worth every bit of it. Its gonna be quite a while, but I can't wait to start Aerobatics.

[gatormatt]

Sir (jdfairman), some of my friends are interested in a flight contract, but they don't have perfect vision. Do you know what surgeries if any they are accepting these days, and if so are these just for helos or can you also fly jets? Also, while at OCS our CO told us that in Pensacola there is a doctor known as Doctor Doom that denies the physicals on a lot of the flight contracts, mainly for vision problems. What do these officers end up doing?
Thanks in advance
Matt

[gemntx]

jdfairman

Here's three sayings thay my crewchiefs hated to hear:

"Let me see if I remember how to do this."
"OOPS!"
"Oh Sh**!"

Remember these, as you may hear your instructors use them.

Good Luck.

Glenn

[jdfairman]

Vision requirement is 20/40 in each eye correctable to 20/20.
PRK is the only surgery that is currently approved for a waiver. The effects of Lasik are still being studied, so it is not yet approved. I have a friend who got PRK and had no problem obtaining a waiver. He had good luck with it and is now training in our sister squadron. The only drawback was that he had to pay for it himself. He considered it well worth it. Ask your OSO or MOI about the process. Also, check out www.nomi.med.navy.mil . Select the HTML sight, select NAMI off the sidebar, have a look around. Take a look at the waiver guide. Lots of good info.

[jdfairman]

Also, as far as I could tell, when I was there, the flight surgeons aren't out to get you. If you're elgible for a waiver, you'll more than likely get one. Try not to put too much stock in the rumor mill. You'll only worry yourself to death needlessly.

[gatormatt]

Thank you sir. I'm nowhere near 20/40 so I have pretty much accepted that I'll never get to fly a multi-million dolaar aircraft. But I have some friends that really want to fly, but have doubts about their eyesight. I could never really give them that much information, so they were talking to some Air Force recruiters. Maybe this info will help me get them back from the darkside. Thanks again sir.
Matt

[jdfairman]

You might be able to fly. Like I say, look into the PRK. Even if you have to pay for it yourself, if you really yearn to fly its probably worth it.

[Sixguns]

Lieutenant,

YOur information is accurate and up-to-date. Lasik is actually being performed on some servicemembers who are qualified. This is after they have been accepted for service. In the D.C. area the wait could be anywhere from 6 months to 2 years for the procedure if you are selected as a candidate.

One thing I would caution an aviation officer candidate on is the fact that an aviation guarantee does not guarantee you a seat in a cockpit. There is the chance you could end up as an aviation maintenance officer, air defense officer or a few other MOS's outside of the cockpit. I personally would not go through PRK. I would say become a Marine officer, regardless of aviation guarantee or not. Go out and get a private pilot's license and fly recreationally if you really want to fly.

SF,

Sixguns

[gatormatt]

I am currently a ground contract, but as soon as I get accepted to law school I will switch over to law contract. I'm looking forward to doing law because I heard that although the first few years is basically drafting wills and landlord/tenant type stuff, the years that follow allow the opportunity for some pretty neat legal work.

Thanks again to everyone for the information.

Matt

[WMjets]

For those of you new to the forum: I'm a midshipman in Marine option NROTC at the University of Michigan.

Sorry, I haven't been around lately, lots and lots of studies. I just got a chance to skim the last two pages, didn't see anything that I could really give any input on. If there is something that someone wants me to look at, post it and then you can let me know via email (sfdoordie@yahoo.com). I should be able to find the time for a speedy response if I know that there is something for me specifically. Sorry about the hassle. It'll only be until May when school lets out.

Thanks,
Jo

[Blakeney]

I am also a MO NROTC Mid at Marquette U in Milwaukee WI, I am college program and would be more than willing to give any advice to anybody looking at it. My one bit of advice would be to NOT talk with your recruiter about NROTC....DO talk with your local recruiter for info about the Corps, local recruiters are the BEST source of general Corps info. However, they do have quotas to fill, and (in my experience) would much rather have you enlist than be in NROTC.

I also appologize that it's been a while since I've been to the site, SOO much study, whoever said this college thing was easy had never gone.

I have a question for the Officers, are any of you Infantry Officers? That is where I want to go and I am wondering what I have to look forward too.

OohRaah!
MIDN Blakeney

Ps. I just judged a JNROTC Drill Meet today and if any of you poolees are JROTC, props to you. You will definetly be ahead of the game, as long as you never think that you are ahead of the game, if you get what I'm saying.

[pitbull04]

I'm currently an applicant for the NROTC scholarship and I'm just wondering about "in contract" NROTC. I mean for the many kids that don't receive the scholarship, most apply for a contract in college. That is like they'll pay for the first year or whatever of college while going through NROTC and if they applied themeselves i believe they are offered a contract by the Navy/ Marines in which the rest of the schooling is paid for. The question i have is what are the chances of getting offered the "in contract" way through college if denied the NROTC scholarship. The reason i am asking is that i been juggling in my mind the NROTC way or going through MECEP or BOOST, but really wanting to earn my anchor globe and eagle one way or another. Going to college for free isn't my goal, becoming an officer is.

Thanks to anyone who replies.

pitbull04

[Blakeney]

Pitbull,

The way I understand it, being a non-scholarship Marine Op NROTC Student, is that there are a number of ways to go about getting your commission through NROTC. If you do not recieve your 4 year scholarship you should contact the NROTC Recruiting Officer at the school you want to go to (this can be done by going to the school's website and finding the NROTC website, or by going to the navy's NROTC website and finding the appropriate link to your school) Once you have contacted the recruiting officer tell him or her that you did not recieve the scholarship but would still like to join the program as a College Program Marine Option Midshipman. You and the officer will have some paper work to do (yes, the paperwork for NROTC is literally never ending)

Once in school you MOI (Marine Officer Instructor) will work with you to get you the 3 year scholarship. No matter what, 4, 3, 2 year or no scholarship you will not be obligated to go this route until sophmore year. If you never pick up a scholarship, and assuming your MOI approves once you enter you junior year you will recieve Advanced Standing College Program, that is the point at which you will be Contracted to the Marine Corps if you never pick up a sholarship. Once you are Advanced Standing you are approved to go to OCS and get commissioned.

The advantage to going through NROTC as a college programer as opposed to just doing PLC is that you do Marine PT 2-3 times a week with a Staff or Gunnery Sgt who was/is a DI and will make sure you are in shape. To all of you Sirs out there that went through PLC, I am in no way saying NROTC is better than PLC , just different.

The basic idea is if you do not get the 4-year and don't feel bad if you don't, very few people recieve the 4-year scholarship because the Marine Corps doesn't have a lot of money to throw around, go to a school with NROTC, do College Program, keep your grades above a 3.0, get at least a 230 on your PFT, make sure you SHOW your MOI how much you want to be a Marine and what you are willing to do to get the oh-so-coveted title. (Keep in mind, motovation and determination cannot be told, only shown) Do these things and you should be set.

Well, I know, a lot of info for a seemingly cut and dry matter but there's a lot that goes into the whole deal. If anything I said is not clear or you want more info I'd be happy to help you out.

OooRah!
MIDN Blakeney

[jdfairman]

Thanks MIDN Blakeney. Great info. I am glad there are a few NROTC guys on the thread. I can talk all day long about PLC, but I know zero about NROTC.

[jdfairman]

See you all in about a month and a half.

[Blakeney]

Lt Fairman,

I'm glad to talk about NROTC and I appriecate the info about PLC and TBS.


OooRah!

[Aggie04]

Sir, I have a question about the PFT. I applied to PLC and I know that I will post high and possibly perfect scores for crunches and the 3-mile run. But my pullups are a bit lacking by OCS standards (I only decided to apply involved about a month and a half ago and while I've been running/crunching for some time now I pretty much neglected pullups). This is frustrating because I have good upper body strength when it comes to benching and the like. My recruiter's helped a ton showing me the Armstrong technique and other exercises but I'm worried that it won't be enough in time for my PFT a week from now. How significantly will it affect my application if I have a strong showing in the other two categories? My GPA is a 2.86 and I have a decent resume, if that's any help.

Thank you for any information.

[jdfairman]

A 2.86 GPA and an awesome run time can carry you pretty far. The main problem with lacking pullups is that each one counts for five points of your PFT. Do the math. Thats alot of points. Its hard to give you a solid answer. It all depends on how many slots are available this year and how competitive it is.
If you don't mind me asking, how many pullups can you do at this point? What is your current PFT score? How fast is the run? How many crunches?

[mrbeeans]

my question is to anyone out there who can answer it. ive got a secret clearance and im stationed in kings bay georgia. i did very well on the asvab test though i have no college courses under my belt. im beginning to complete mcis as fast as i can get them. what would be the proper or best way to obtain a commission? thanks to anyone who should reply. semper fi

0311/8152 USMC

[jdfairman]

Good on you for getting your PME squared away. It goes without saying that you need to stay squared away and keep your nose clean. Start asking some of the officers around your unit about their careers, and let them know you are interested in pursuing a commission. Talk to your unit's career planner and ask him/her about some of the different programs like MECEP and the Naval Academy. Keep your immediate chain of command advised of your intentions as well. It also would be very beneficial to enroll in some off-duty college courses if you have the time to do so. You can probably plan on being a senior corporal (at least) before acceptance to these programs, but the sooner you start the ball rolling (researching information on the different programs, possible some college courses) the better.

Best of luck to you. Keep us posted.

[Aggie04]

Originally posted by jdfairman
A 2.86 GPA and an awesome run time can carry you pretty far. The main problem with lacking pullups is that each one counts for five points of your PFT. Do the math. Thats alot of points. Its hard to give you a solid answer. It all depends on how many slots are available this year and how competitive it is.
If you don't mind me asking, how many pullups can you do at this point? What is your current PFT score? How fast is the run? How many crunches?

Well sir I can do about 6-7 pullups, which is embarassing to admit but it's twice what I could do a month ago. The last run I timed myself was just under 20:00 and if I push myself harder during the PFT it should be even lower. I did 100 crunches in 1:40 which wasn't much of a problem. I know that at this rate by the time PLC actually starts I'll be able to do many more pullups. Thanks for the help!

[WMjets]

Blakeney,
Welcome aboard. I'm glad to see a college program mid, because I know very little about the program. I don't remember who said it, but they were absolutely right: recruiters are not the best people to talk to to get information about officer programs because they of course recruit primarily enlisted. However, they can still be very useful, because they can help you get in touch with the right people. I only talked with recruiters before becoming a midshipman, and because of that I didn't know college program existed, so I would've gone MECEP if I hadn't gotten the scholarship!

Any questions about the NROTC/MECEP programs, just throw them out there. Between Blakeney, myself, and all the Marines out there, we should be able to answer it.

Good luck to all trying to earn the title,
Jo

[PooleeChick17]

Hello, I'm interested in becoming an officer through the MECEPS program. I was just wondering about the MOS's for female officers. I've been doing some research on it and I've heard from others that female officer mos's are limited. So which/how many are open to women?

[MyCorps]

mainly the 03xx series is not open to females. That would translate to any combat (infantry, artilley...) unit. I thought you were going into intel? Have you changed or are wanting to change your MOS?

[PooleeChick17]

Well I'm enlisting as Intel but I thought when you become an officer you had to take on a different type of job or something like that. When I checked out the main Marines site about officer mos's I didn't really see anything pertaining to Intel. That's why I was wondering about the mos's.

[MyCorps]

Check your PM's. I sent you a message.