KYCpl
08-26-11, 04:22 AM
I got out of the Corps about a year ago as a Corporal but never picked up an NCO sword. A couple of days ago I began the search for an official USMC NCO Sword. Most of my Google searches directed me to these forums so I thought this would be the place to post what I found. I apologize if I am restating old information, but I couldn't find a thread on here that was what I was really looking for. So here it is in one neat post.
I have spent about the past 6 hours scouring the internet for official swords. You would not believe how many backdoor links I had to click through to finally get this information.
We all know that there are plenty of websites selling NCO swords but no one can agree on where to get the REAL sword. I have finally come up with a definitive answer. The following is what I found.
A list of all Marine Corps Uniform Certified Manufacturers and Vendors can be found at http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/pmice/AddInfo/Clothing/Certified_Vendors_USMC_JUNE2009.PDF
That list is valid as of June 2009. If for some reason that link ever goes dead. Marine Corps Systems Command is in charge of all the stuff you ever stole from supply. Within MARCORSYSCOM is Combat Equipment & Support Systems (CESS), within them is Infantry Combat Equipment, within them is Combat and Dress Clothing, and within them are the guys in charge of certification. Just follow that trail if the link ever goes dead one day. I told you it was a lot of clicking.
The actual USMC NCO Sword specs are MIL-S-19206E (MC) . The officially official kept on a government server file can be found at https://assist.daps.dla.mil/docimages/A/0000/0001/3227/000000058655_000000171898_FOWEWBTEJZ.PDF?CFID=3580 7128&CFTOKEN=24249429&jsessionid=5c308742fe32ceee6d675a5e225f726731d5
You can go to The Department of Defense Single Stock Point for Military Specifications, Standards and Related Publications website at http://dodssp.daps.dla.mil/ . This is actually a pretty handy site for all things Mil-Spec. A search using only the word "sword" only brought back something like 5 hits, so just search for sword on that site if you need to. Or just Google MIL-S-19206E (MC), that will work also. Read it though, it says things like how each sword is required to come with a cotton bag kind of thing for storage, it's not just a freebie some sellers are throwing in out of the kindness of their heart.
Marlow White actually put me on the scent of this trail. It took me forever to confirm and fact check everything they say about certification, but everything they say is 100% legit. You can check yourself, or just follow my links, or just believe me. Well, there was one thing they were off on. Somewhere on their website it says something like "Just go to somethingorother.usmc.mil and search for something or other, and you'll find this document." No, you wont. Don't waste your time, you will end up on an hours long hunt through a level of bureaucracy that only the Marine Corps could create.
I'm not going to go through all the steps of getting certified to be a certified manufacturer or dealer with the USMC, I'm getting tired of typing. Just check out Marlow Whites website, they have some good information, some good links to some good documents, and it is all correct. Oh yeah, that official manufacturer list also says who has been recently de-certified, which Atlantic Cutlery and TheMameluke are both on.
Also, don't waste your time trying to track down TM10120-15/2 that Marlow keeps referencing. From what I can tell its some type of big ol' omnibus of a technical manual. Technical manuals are restricted but the Commandant does release parts of them for various reasons from time to time, usually FOIA requests.
HERE'S IS THE STUFF YOU WANT TO KNOW
As of right now there are only three companies selling USMC certified swords. They are certified to sell both NCO and officer swords. They are:
-Marlow White,
-Officers' Equipment, and
-The Marine Shop.
There may be others who bought from these guys and are reselling, but these are the direct guys. Marlow and TMS get their swords from Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Co (WKC), but KWC does not sell directly to consumers and the swords they each get are a little different. OEC gets theirs from DSCP I think, and you can pretty much only get them on a base, unless you want to pay the mark up a 3rd party will charge.
The differences between The Marine Shop and Marlow White, besides at least $100, are the way they are made. TMS' are MIL-S-19206E (MC) Class 1 high carbon steel and chrome plated. Which is why on their website you will notice "sword services", the chromium can get dinged and chipped off, and whatever else, over time.
Marlow White's are MIL-S-19206E (MC) are Class 2 stainless steel with some chromium mixed in and polished up. From what I could tell from pictures on the internet TMS' etching seems to be a bit more detailed, but I think Marlow's hilt design is more detailed (in my opinion).
Which is best? It depends on if you want a chrome plated show piece out of Quantico, or a polished one for a bit less. TMS is definitely the Cadillac though.
Certified swords will have a serial number on the spine by the hilt.
Oh, and check out MCO P1020.34G http://www.marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%20P1020.34G%20W%20CH%201-5.pdf for proper wear and engraving of the sword. MCO P1020.34G chapter 3 for enlisted, I think. Marlow also gets the orientation of the engraving right, they know what they are doing.
And that's all I have to say about that.
I Hope this helped someone.
SEMPER FI
I have spent about the past 6 hours scouring the internet for official swords. You would not believe how many backdoor links I had to click through to finally get this information.
We all know that there are plenty of websites selling NCO swords but no one can agree on where to get the REAL sword. I have finally come up with a definitive answer. The following is what I found.
A list of all Marine Corps Uniform Certified Manufacturers and Vendors can be found at http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/pmice/AddInfo/Clothing/Certified_Vendors_USMC_JUNE2009.PDF
That list is valid as of June 2009. If for some reason that link ever goes dead. Marine Corps Systems Command is in charge of all the stuff you ever stole from supply. Within MARCORSYSCOM is Combat Equipment & Support Systems (CESS), within them is Infantry Combat Equipment, within them is Combat and Dress Clothing, and within them are the guys in charge of certification. Just follow that trail if the link ever goes dead one day. I told you it was a lot of clicking.
The actual USMC NCO Sword specs are MIL-S-19206E (MC) . The officially official kept on a government server file can be found at https://assist.daps.dla.mil/docimages/A/0000/0001/3227/000000058655_000000171898_FOWEWBTEJZ.PDF?CFID=3580 7128&CFTOKEN=24249429&jsessionid=5c308742fe32ceee6d675a5e225f726731d5
You can go to The Department of Defense Single Stock Point for Military Specifications, Standards and Related Publications website at http://dodssp.daps.dla.mil/ . This is actually a pretty handy site for all things Mil-Spec. A search using only the word "sword" only brought back something like 5 hits, so just search for sword on that site if you need to. Or just Google MIL-S-19206E (MC), that will work also. Read it though, it says things like how each sword is required to come with a cotton bag kind of thing for storage, it's not just a freebie some sellers are throwing in out of the kindness of their heart.
Marlow White actually put me on the scent of this trail. It took me forever to confirm and fact check everything they say about certification, but everything they say is 100% legit. You can check yourself, or just follow my links, or just believe me. Well, there was one thing they were off on. Somewhere on their website it says something like "Just go to somethingorother.usmc.mil and search for something or other, and you'll find this document." No, you wont. Don't waste your time, you will end up on an hours long hunt through a level of bureaucracy that only the Marine Corps could create.
I'm not going to go through all the steps of getting certified to be a certified manufacturer or dealer with the USMC, I'm getting tired of typing. Just check out Marlow Whites website, they have some good information, some good links to some good documents, and it is all correct. Oh yeah, that official manufacturer list also says who has been recently de-certified, which Atlantic Cutlery and TheMameluke are both on.
Also, don't waste your time trying to track down TM10120-15/2 that Marlow keeps referencing. From what I can tell its some type of big ol' omnibus of a technical manual. Technical manuals are restricted but the Commandant does release parts of them for various reasons from time to time, usually FOIA requests.
HERE'S IS THE STUFF YOU WANT TO KNOW
As of right now there are only three companies selling USMC certified swords. They are certified to sell both NCO and officer swords. They are:
-Marlow White,
-Officers' Equipment, and
-The Marine Shop.
There may be others who bought from these guys and are reselling, but these are the direct guys. Marlow and TMS get their swords from Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Co (WKC), but KWC does not sell directly to consumers and the swords they each get are a little different. OEC gets theirs from DSCP I think, and you can pretty much only get them on a base, unless you want to pay the mark up a 3rd party will charge.
The differences between The Marine Shop and Marlow White, besides at least $100, are the way they are made. TMS' are MIL-S-19206E (MC) Class 1 high carbon steel and chrome plated. Which is why on their website you will notice "sword services", the chromium can get dinged and chipped off, and whatever else, over time.
Marlow White's are MIL-S-19206E (MC) are Class 2 stainless steel with some chromium mixed in and polished up. From what I could tell from pictures on the internet TMS' etching seems to be a bit more detailed, but I think Marlow's hilt design is more detailed (in my opinion).
Which is best? It depends on if you want a chrome plated show piece out of Quantico, or a polished one for a bit less. TMS is definitely the Cadillac though.
Certified swords will have a serial number on the spine by the hilt.
Oh, and check out MCO P1020.34G http://www.marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%20P1020.34G%20W%20CH%201-5.pdf for proper wear and engraving of the sword. MCO P1020.34G chapter 3 for enlisted, I think. Marlow also gets the orientation of the engraving right, they know what they are doing.
And that's all I have to say about that.
I Hope this helped someone.
SEMPER FI