NCO leadership

[MDAD]

Not ever having been a Marine and understandiong the bond that you all share I have a question. My son is a Marine and was sharing with me that his new SSgt has been less then cordial to him in the morning. Now mind you he is not complaining we were just having a conversation. He stated that every morning he extends the courtesy of saying "Good morning SSgt" and the daily reply is "SHUT THE F*&% UP! I know that not every Marine Ssgt is like that and maybe being a lowly Pfc you don't deserve anything better then that. I'm just curious on what you think? I know nothing about the customs or courtesies that you extrend to each other.
Thanks for you replies and thank you for your service
MDAD

[Phantom Blooper]

How early?

Did the SSGT have his coffee?

In all seriousness.....the SSGT is being unprofessional.

Tact is a leadership trait.

However I would quit saying Good Morning....but if it continues to be a problem and singling out your Marine....he has options to go above his head.....

Does it occur every morning?

In all honesty I never remember saying anything unless asked and passing officers for a salute.

[MDAD]

Good advice. It does happen everymorning and his Corporal said he was treated the same way by this SSGT when he was a Pfc. I remember being to scared to talk to anyone when I was an Airman. I didn't want to screw up. Thank you

[haebyungdae]

There are some Marines that may be like that because they feel that people below them or those with less experience are meaningless, but as a SNCO, that SSgt should not act like that. Reasons like "he is just a PFC" or "that's how i was treated when I was a PFC" are not reasons at all and there is no reason to act like that as part of the "most professional" military in the world and especially in the Marine Corps. That is something he could expect from a corporal or a new sergeant. Saying such things shows that you have very little care for your junior Marines and is not very becoming of a Marine leader (if that is that SNCO's outlook towards his juniors).

Maybe my views are flawed because I'm 'Intel' or whatever, I don't care and don't much care whether your son is combat arms or combat support, if a Marine gives the greeting of the day he should get the same courtesy back. Having a bad day, maybe the higher says nothing, but that should never be "F off."

[hussaf]

Your boy needs to be sure to grow some thick skin. In the Marine Corps your forced to work, and play, with all kinds; racists, gays, homophobes, liberals, hardline right wingers....all religions, ethnicities, beliefs, etc. Not saying your son does not, just that he should be prepared to not let things bother him, else he will be bothered a lot. Sometimes it is very hard to work with, and for, the people you are assigned. You really have little choice in the matter, so best advice is to try not to let it get to you.

That SSgt is likely dealing with personal issues (or refusing to deal with them), has a dumb idea of what leadership is, or just thinks its funny to cuss at juniors.

The enforcement of customs and courtesies is unique to each command, company, platoon, etc... Technically one is expected to render an appropriate greeting, but its not always done. Particularly in a work environment where guys have better things to do then remind seniors of their rank and last name.

Regardless, this is a non-issue as long as its not an indicator of your son getting unfair pros and cons. When pros and cons come into play, its time to seek some guidance or take action. I could go on about how your son rates a counseling once a month to determine deficiencies, proficiencies, etc...but that's getting outside this topic. Oh, if your boy gets low pro/cons his first time, that's normal. Its better to have pros/cons start low and gradually get better than to have them jump around.

[MDAD]

Thank you I appreciate your outlook. My son wants to make the Marines a career and this is one of those things he is going to have to work through. My encouragement to him is simply surround yourself with positive Marines when your not working and look at this situation as an exception not the rule. I told him that he needs to remember this time when he becomes a Sgt. Thanks for your rep[ly and your service.
Regards
MDAD

[MDAD]

He would probably be ****ed if he new I was even asking other Marines the question because he isn't complaining it just came up in conversation. His ratings were fair and he expected what he got. I just raised him to be respectful to authority and I think this is more of a growing pain for him then a problem at this point. His Uncle served 35 years in the Corps and he has a cousin that was KIA at Iwo Jima 2\22\45 so his pride for the Corps runs deep. Hopefully this experience makes him a better NCO when that time comes. Thnaks for your reply\advice and your service

[hussaf]

This is very true. I am on deployment in AFG right now and working with an Army SF guy. The Army SF guy said he always thought the best thing the Marine Corps has going for it is its NCO leadership....specifically Sgt to Cpl leadership. Unfortunately, I feel this is something that is slipping away from us. I hope your son has good leaders to emulate, and pass on to his juniors when he is a Sgt.

[haebyungdae]

Your son just needs to make sure that he uses this as a moment of reflection to be like, "this is how I shouldn't act when I become a leader of Marines."

I went through Sergeant's Course last year and can say that the Marine Corps is trying to develop quality leaders and they are teaching the right things, but at the same time I can say that an amount of Marines don't get it at the sergeant level. They stay stuck in a mentality that is the result of the leadership they have been shown. It is not an epidemic, and I wouldn't say that there is failure in the leadership of the Marines, not in a long shot, but when Marines get to the SNCO ranks there are still some with a bad attitude for no reason.

What I said above is how I have dealt with the leadership that I have seen, not all leadership, but some. Having gone off of that to develop myself as a leader I am respected by my highers, my peers, and those below me; receive good marks of my evaluations; and was selected to be promoted.

[iamspartacus]

I don’t know if it’s completely fair to judge this SSgt’s response in this type of setting. I.e. we’re on an internet forum hearing things second/third hand (I’m not saying we shouldn’t talk about it though). This very well may be one of those “you had to be there” things to truly understand it. Him saying, “shut the eff up” may simply be a gruff term of endearment that Marines have been known to give. You know, kind of a joking around wink and a nod type thing. But I’m not saying it couldn’t also be exactly how we are picturing it in our heads. He very well may be acting very unprofessionally and inappropriately in that he really does hold some sort of animosity toward your son. I think it’s just something you’d have to observe for yourself to understand. Is the SSgt like this with everyone? Is he a deuche bag all day? Is he approachable at all to talk to? Is your son receiving any unnecessary negative treatment on a regular basis? These are obviously things only your son and his fellow Marines can answer.

Having said all the above, of course it is best if all leaders of Marines set the example and treat their inferiors with respect and professionalism. But sometimes it looks differently in each Marine. I wouldn’t worry too much about your son.

[MDAD]

I would agree with that I am only hearing bits and peices through general conversations on the phone. I'm not concerned as much as I was curious to todays leaders opinions and as a parent it's always worse then it really is (Right?). My dealings with Military today are my friends and family ranging from 05's to retired generals so my perspective and interactions are different today then when I was enlisted. Being talked down to when I served was the norm Thanks for your reply and your service

[jckennedy13]

Many conclusions can be drawn from things your son has told you and opinions of those posting on this forum, but ultimately there are far too many variables that could be involved to dram any type of accurate conclusion or satisfy your curiosity as to why your son seems to be told to "Shut the f#ck up" when he extends the appropriate greeting of the day to a superior. Personally, I find it difficult to believe it happens every single day and, having once been a PFC, I remember how deep my insecurities and awkwardness to my new surroundings ran. I think the best advice to give your son is to make nothing of this situation and to focus on his performance and preparedness to engage in real world situations with far more significant ramifications than someone's response to his morning greeting. His focus should be on his proficiency and conduct in his duties and the marks he receives from his leadership. Starting out in the Marine Corps is no time for being overly sensitive to conversational interactions with others. It's a time to adapt and integrate into the Marine way of life and to apply his personal beliefs into that adaptation as he sees fit. Does this require thick skin? Absolutely. Thicker skin than was required at boot camp? Probably not. He was broken down and rebuilt as a Marine and now as an E2 is the time for him to learn and hone his craft/trade as a part of a the total force. Whatever his MOS is, now is the time to apply what he has learned and to constantly improve moving forward. After 8 years and 11 deployments in the Marine Corps I can assure any Marine that there are far worse things than being told to "Shut the f#ck up". He is going to encounter varying levels of professionalism throughout his career. All he needs to focus on is his level of professionalism and he won't only do fine, but he will excel. In the Marine Corps emphasis is placed on leading by example to demonstrate to junior Marines the right and wrong way to conduct themselves. There are lessons in everything, good and bad. If your son has the wherewithal to see this is a lesson in how not to act and to apply this lesson to his actions moving forward, he is going to be just fine. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[MDAD]

Excellent advice thank you. I want to emphasis that this was not a complaint from my son as much as it was something thast came up in conversation probably due to my probing of how life has been at his first duty station. He has learned quickly that what happens in the fleet and what happened at basic are two different scenarios. I am slow to give him answers to difficult situation as he needs to work throiugh those himself. His skin is pretty thick and i certainly have no concerns about his ability to deal with negativity or sub standard leaders. I will pass on the advice to stay focused on performance professionalism. Thnak you for your reply and your service