The growing problem of Americans not understanding

[Caesar Augustus]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/01/AR2011030106938.html

[LoveOfCountry]

Wow. Great article.

[Caesar Augustus]

I remember hearing that statistic when I first got back from Iraq but didn't realize just how true it was. Its bad when I live in the state with the second highest enlistment rate and amount of service members killed and less than 30 minutes from a joint reserve base and since 2007 I can think of maybe 5 people I've run into that are combat vets and only a few more that are military.

[FistFu68]

:usmc: For those Who Fight for it Life has a certain Flavor The Protected will NEVER KNOW!!! S/F :iwo:

[boomer56328]

Wow. Excellent article. I know what you mean. I know very few combat vets and it's refreshing to meet them. I like talking to people who understand what I went through and know where I'm coming from. So few people I talk to really get it. It can be extremely frustrating. I try explaining the hardships, but there is something lost in the translation. Most people are kind enough and try to show empathy, but you can tell they really have no grasp.

[Caesar Augustus]

Wow. Excellent article. I know what you mean. I know very few combat vets and it's refreshing to meet them. I like talking to people who understand what I went through and know where I'm coming from. So few people I talk to really get it. It can be extremely frustrating. I try explaining the hardships, but there is something lost in the translation. Most people are kind enough and try to show empathy, but you can tell they really have no grasp.

Yep. It took me just till recently to figure out that as much as I tried to be around people who aren't combat vets especially family all it did was keep me from being able to move on and stop seeing myself as someone who was messed up and in general evil for not feeling emotion like others, doing things while deployed and back stateside that are rather inexcusable and lastly just understanding that sometimes the very people who should be there for you and understand and empathize the most don't and end up being your own worst enemy because its far harder to write off the opinion of those closest to you compared to a stranger.

I've had my ex girlfriend call me every name in the book, make fun of me for times I'd wake up from nightmares, flashbacks or even for the death of four Marines that in many way I blame myself for, other assorted people make comments that are ignorant etc but nothing is worse than your own family basically writing you off as a lost cause, abandoning you or making those same comments all because you trusted them.

Now I only associate with combat veterans. I know that no matter what they'll always get it, even if they are in no position to help outside of letting you vent and say stuff that would cause most people to look at you as if you were crazy and dangerous; they get that sometimes saying things that on the surface seem completely immoral, morbid and disgusting is at least for me a way to in ways grieve but also just to feel normal. If anger is the only thing I can easily feel its better than nothing if you can do it around someone you can trust and understands.

I'll say that I am so glad I joined the Corps and not another branch because throughout 2010 there were many times that Marines from previous generations went out of their way to help me out, at one time paying my rent, and another finding me a house to stay in until the new semester started and I had my financial aid in. No one else has that type of bond, where a Marine in their 50, 20s, 70 or whatever age will help you to the best of their ability simply because we both a Marines.

[boomer56328]

Yep. It took me just till recently to figure out that as much as I tried to be around people who aren't combat vets especially family all it did was keep me from being able to move on and stop seeing myself as someone who was messed up and in general evil for not feeling emotion like others, doing things while deployed and back stateside that are rather inexcusable and lastly just understanding that sometimes the very people who should be there for you and understand and empathize the most don't and end up being your own worst enemy because its far harder to write off the opinion of those closest to you compared to a stranger.

I've had my ex girlfriend call me every name in the book, make fun of me for times I'd wake up from nightmares, flashbacks or even for the death of four Marines that in many way I blame myself for, other assorted people make comments that are ignorant etc but nothing is worse than your own family basically writing you off as a lost cause, abandoning you or making those same comments all because you trusted them.

Now I only associate with combat veterans. I know that no matter what they'll always get it, even if they are in no position to help outside of letting you vent and say stuff that would cause most people to look at you as if you were crazy and dangerous; they get that sometimes saying things that on the surface seem completely immoral, morbid and disgusting is at least for me a way to in ways grieve but also just to feel normal. If anger is the only thing I can easily feel its better than nothing if you can do it around someone you can trust and understands.

I'll say that I am so glad I joined the Corps and not another branch because throughout 2010 there were many times that Marines from previous generations went out of their way to help me out, at one time paying my rent, and another finding me a house to stay in until the new semester started and I had my financial aid in. No one else has that type of bond, where a Marine in their 50, 20s, 70 or whatever age will help you to the best of their ability simply because we both a Marines.

I'm very sorry to hear that you were treated this way by people who are supposed to love and support you. While I feel like my family doesn't understand, they have always been extrememly supportive and my wife has been very patient and has tried to be helpful. I don't like talking with her about my combat experience, but she has always been willing to listen and try to help in any way she can. I too have awoke with nightmares and I can't imagine having a signicant other who mocked those emotions. You are way better off without her. Neither her or my family and friends have ever made me feel bad for what I was going through. I hope you find someone who is at least willing to try to help you thru your issues, even if they aren't able.

[radio relay]

It's something that bugs me to no end, too. I see these effete fools enjoying their lives in a country that would not be here, if not for the few who are on the front lines. What I see are people who not only have no clue, but do not actually want to know about, nor care about what military personnel (from all branches) are going through to keep them safe. Particularly those who have been in actual combat.

My Father was a career military man. He was a combat Veteran of three shooting wars, wounded in two, and was away from home for months on end patrolling the boarders between eastern and western Europe during the worst of the Cold War. Like the sons of the General's family, what else was for me but to go into the military and on to Vietnam, too. My brother-in-law did three tours in Vietnam, also. My family understands. I'm fortunate in that regard.

However, as I've lived, I've always been alone. Virtually nobody I'm around on a daily basis has a similar set of life experiences. So, I've just learned to accept that no one else understands. I've finished grieving for the dead, although I'll never forget. I will take my memories to my grave. I've ceased to expect anything more.

I don't know what to say to those coming back to an uncaring nation. There are those of us here and there that know and care, but we are few.

[Caesar Augustus]

It's something that bugs me to no end, too. I see these effete fools enjoying their lives in a country that would not be here, if not for the few who are on the front lines. What I see are people who not only have no clue, but do not actually want to know about, nor care about what military personnel (from all branches) are going through to keep them safe. Particularly those who have been in actual combat.

My Father was a career military man. He was a combat Veteran of three shooting wars, wounded in two, and was away from home for months on end patrolling the boarders between eastern and western Europe during the worst of the Cold War. Like the sons of the General's family, what else was for me but to go into the military and on to Vietnam, too. My brother-in-law did three tours in Vietnam, also. My family understands. I'm fortunate in that regard.

However, as I've lived, I've always been alone. Virtually nobody I'm around on a daily basis has a similar set of life experiences. So, I've just learned to accept that no one else understands. I've finished grieving for the dead, although I'll never forget. I will take my memories to my grave. I've ceased to expect anything more.

I don't know what to say to those coming back to an uncaring nation. There are those of us here and there that know and care, but we are few.

My father is as well career military(AF) and should actually be reaching 20yrs in the next year or two and he of all people was the least understanding of anyone I've met. It was almost as if he hated the fact I had seen combat and done something he'd never gotten to do. He missed out on Desert Storm because his unit in AK was tasked to North Korea and then when he went back in when I enlisted he ended up on recruiting duty or with units not deploying. I think even now within our own ranks there seems to be an Us and them mentality. I've yet to meet a combat veteran who writes off someone who doesn't have combat experience just for that fact, but I've seen jealousy from those who either didn't deploy or didn't see combat, as if they feel we're judging them as less so they quickly decide its easier to distance themselves from us.

I have found that its the oddest places where I feel people will actually give a ****. One girl I know is literally a self proclaimed liberal hippy(no shaving, showering, likes to live in the woods for weeks at a time with total strangers etc) but thats never stopped her from understanding the sacrifices all of us make. It wouldn't surprise me if most of Americas outcast or the kids who were always considered weird don't end up being some of the most understanding people especially with regards to why sometimes all we'd like to hear is nothing, just treat us like we're another random person and not a combat vet.

I remember hearing some Vietnam veterans talking about how bad the treatment was when they came home but the one solace they had was they had numbers. They might be homeless, miserable, and mistreated but they still had a semblance of unity because there were so many. I personally would not want to trade post combat experiences with anyone from Vietnam but I sort of understand where they were coming from.

Its why I know so many of us would in a heartbeat just take up permanent residence in a combat zone because its far far simpler to be at war than to live at home.

[Caesar Augustus]

I'm very sorry to hear that you were treated this way by people who are supposed to love and support you. While I feel like my family doesn't understand, they have always been extrememly supportive and my wife has been very patient and has tried to be helpful. I don't like talking with her about my combat experience, but she has always been willing to listen and try to help in any way she can. I too have awoke with nightmares and I can't imagine having a signicant other who mocked those emotions. You are way better off without her. Neither her or my family and friends have ever made me feel bad for what I was going through. I hope you find someone who is at least willing to try to help you thru your issues, even if they aren't able.

I guess the fact that outside of my dad who has been non-supportive, I really don't even dislike any of them. I rather expected it even though I didn't want to just resign myself to that idea. In a way I laugh at the fact my family or ex will on one hand tell me I'm an angry evil person and then when I no longer give them a reaction and simply blow off anything they say, do/don't do and move on as if they hadn't slighted me then I'm uncaring and cold. Damned if I do damned if I don't:bunny:

I guess in the end I say its a combination of ignorance on the families part, our own ability to hide and control problems and never ask for help or look like we need it till things are absolutely horrible and then the family or friends are not only caught unawares that you of all people are having any problems and need help, they seem to freeze and try to push you away because its easier for them to deal with the fear you might be another "casualty" from afar than to risk being right there with you and having to deal with stateside survivors guilt.

That or maybe my family just sucked. Least we all know when blood fails you the blood thats been spilled and is part of who we are will never let anything come between us.:flag:

[radio relay]

Hopefully, you will find the understanding you seek, and yeah it will probably come from a direction that you would least expect. It might not be a bad idea to see if there are groups through the VA for recent combat Vets.

[Caesar Augustus]

Hopefully, you will find the understanding you seek, and yeah it will probably come from a direction that you would least expect. It might not be a bad idea to see if there are groups through the VA for recent combat Vets.

I almost went to one when I ran into a buddy of mine who got wounded early during our deployment but with work it never happened.

If I didn't used to drink like a fish for the past few years I might frequent the local VFW

[Rooger]

I don't know what to say to those coming back to an uncaring nation. There are those of us here and there that know and care, but we are few


Brother I feel ya, Having said that, I work with a bunch of Vets, from Vietnam to Afghanistan.

Let me tell ya, among the Professionals I work with, To a man and a lady the are ALL appreciative for what WE have done, past and present. Maybe its an aberration among corporations, but I saw the Uncaring, from 79 to 89 when i was active....... soldiers and Dogs keep of the grass so to speak.

Having said that, I do see what you mean, among the very young.......but NEVER the Seasoned Human beings (American type...1 each) WHO KNOW what we the few, who have served in any capacity,have sacrificed so those Americans can Live in freedom and security...such as it is.:usmc:

[Caesar Augustus]

Brother I feel ya, Having said that, I work with a bunch of Vets, from Vietnam to Afghanistan.

Let me tell ya, among the Professionals I work with, To a man and a lady the are ALL appreciative for what WE have done, past and present. Maybe its an aberration among corporations, but I saw the Uncaring, from 79 to 89 when i was active....... soldiers and Dogs keep of the grass so to speak.

Having said that, I do see what you mean, among the very young.......but NEVER the Seasoned Human beings (American type...1 each) WHO KNOW what we the few, who have served in any capacity,have sacrificed so those Americans can Live in freedom and security...such as it is.:usmc:

I think that among those who know what its like to work a hard job for a living, those who were not privileged or those who were and realize just how blessed they are, those are the ones regardless of age, demographic etc that will always care genuinely.

The biggest issue is that its not an issue whatsoever now. You never hear about returning vets unless we kill people or end up assaulting people and then its just as quickly gone so many people are so distant from the war because in this day and age its not their wars and they most likely don't know anyone who has been deployed that its part willing ignorance and the nature of this day and age.

[Rooger]

I think, personally, that you miss the point.


The biggest issue is that its not an issue whatsoever now. You never hear about returning vets unless we kill people or end up assaulting people and then its just as quickly gone so many people are so distant from the war because in this day and age its not their wars and they most likely don't know anyone who has been deployed that its part willing ignorance and the nature of this day and age.




It is an Issue! And I have to disagree with the negativity that you espouse, I've seen the "elephant" as have many others here on Leatherneck and let me tell you brother, a whole crapload of us have gone though it and come out the other side.

I for 1 WILLINGLY said I will "Support and Defend the Constitution Of the United States of America.....Against ALL Enemies, Foreign and Domestic, NOBODY forced you to take that oath! or didn't you know what you were gettting into? Yes there is a Heavy price WE who take that oath pay......... I payed and I pay to this day........do I have regrets for taking that oath? NEVER,! do I have regrets about what that cost me and my family? You bet......but I, and my family (and I include EVERY Marine who ever was, IS my Family) know the cost and pay it WILLINGLY............ You want recognition? thats what your whining about........



I never wanted recognition......I never needed it.......Knowing what I did and still do...the Ideals that the Corps Instilled in me is enough..


Semper FI Brother:usmc:

[Caesar Augustus]

I think, personally, that you miss the point.




It is an Issue! And I have to disagree with the negativity that you espouse, I've seen the "elephant" as have many others here on Leatherneck and let me tell you brother, a whole crapload of us have gone though it and come out the other side.

I for 1 WILLINGLY said I will "Support and Defend the Constitution Of the United States of America.....Against ALL Enemies, Foreign and Domestic, NOBODY forced you to take that oath! or didn't you know what you were gettting into? Yes there is a Heavy price WE who take that oath pay......... I payed and I pay to this day........do I have regrets for taking that oath? NEVER,! do I have regrets about what that cost me and my family? You bet......but I, and my family (and I include EVERY Marine who ever was, IS my Family) know the cost and pay it WILLINGLY............ You want recognition? thats what your whining about........



I never wanted recognition......I never needed it.......Knowing what I did and still do...the Ideals that the Corps Instilled in me is enough..


Semper FI Brother:usmc:
No where in that statement did I WANT recognition, I simply said the only time we're given some is when we do something wrong after returning and I am willing to bet a large portion of them suffered from ptsd, mtbi and generally feeling as if they were all left alone. So yes I'd like this nation who now has people voluntarily going to war to take a look at what the wars cost those who serve and the ones they interact with when they get back..

If wanting people to understand combat veterans is a bad ideal I guess I'm guilty. I personally have not done anything that will forever destroy my future but many Marines and Soldiers have and its because many times they simply don't know what to do and no one recognizes that there is something wrong and if they do they have no idea how to help.

[Rooger]

The biggest issue is that its not an issue whatsoever now.


Sorry brother But this quote BEGS recognition! That's what you asking for! consciously or unconsciously.

We Don't ASK for it to be an issue.......we do our job without the need for recognition...or as least I DO.

[Rooger]

Yeah Bro....we all suffer but thats the price we pay.....and I for 1 paid it willingly.

[Caesar Augustus]

Sorry brother But this quote BEGS recognition! That's what you asking for! consciously or unconsciously.

We Don't ASK for it to be an issue.......we do our job without the need for recognition...or as least I DO.

No its not, its saying that it should be an issue that returning veterans get help in dealing with whatever issues they have after combat from their close friends and family.

Thats a far cry from asking for someone to say good job. If wanting the country we fight for to be willing to take care of us and take stock in the permanent changes is asking for recognition then I guess we should all just act like it isn't an issue and when veterans keep killing themselves and ruining their lives all the while the American public especially those closest to the vets do nothing then that nation has a serious problem.

[Caesar Augustus]

Yeah Bro....we all suffer but thats the price we pay.....and I for 1 paid it willingly.

Yes we all paid for it willingly, that doesn't mean that the people who we interact with on an intimate level shouldn't understand that there are completely different problems many veterans deal with and subsequently understand how to handle them.

Or we could do the macho bull**** thing and argue over semantics. If wanting people to be educated is asking for recognition getting tattoos, having bumperstickers and flags all over your property surely is.

[Rooger]

Sorry Bro, Maybe I misunderstood you. I agree the VA has done a terrible job, and some Vets need that help.

Far Cry? LOL

I agree Some Vets Need that help, but a whole Lot more, in my experience adjust to civie life with their faith and family's intact for the most part....not to say that some, those few in the Minority that you hear about over and over ad nauseum, makes it sound like ALL VETS are crazy.

"We Are Crazed killers" from the crap that we did and saw....and we'll never be right in the head.....like I said, not to say that doesn't happen...it does...... but it in my experience, IT IS NOT the norm.

Then again the Greatest Generation who went through more crap than you or I can imagine.......never ( and I know alot of those guys) NEVER COMPLAINED!

They Came home and got on with their lives.......

Whats your major malfunction numbnuts?

Get off the "Oh poor me" and suck it up.

[Caesar Augustus]

Sorry Bro, Maybe I misunderstood you. I agree the VA has done a terrible job, and some Vets need that help.

Far Cry? LOL

I agree Some Vets Need that help, but a whole Lot more, in my experience adjust to civie life with their faith and family's intact for the most part....not to say that some, those few in the Minority that you hear about over and over ad nauseum, makes it sound like ALL VETS are crazy.

"We Are Crazed killers" from the crap that we did and saw....and we'll never be right in the head.....like I said, not to say that doesn't happen...it does...... but it in my experience, IT IS NOT the norm.

Then again the Greatest Generation who went through more crap than you or I can imagine.......never ( and I know alot of those guys) NEVER COMPLAINED!

They Came home and got on with their lives.......

Whats your major malfunction numbnuts?

Get off the "Oh poor me" and suck it up.

That was my whole point. I'm the last person to think everyone who went to Iraq/A'stan had it bad but the fact is most that do see sustained combat or ied blast don't come home just fine, they/I simply cope with it and do exactly what many past generations do. Have ****ty relationships, work history etc till they finally almost destroy themselves and move on.

Its that very suck it up mentality that got a lot of vietnam veterans and vets from every other war into ****ty situations and subsequently being here to warn us and teach us.

[Rooger]

BullCrap...........Your whining and using faulty logic at best.........your saying your the last person to think..........with that I agree..........your not thinking your reacting..........

Simply coping? LMAO we ALL simply cope with many issues day after day, VET or civie.

I agree with the teaching us part of your post.......the rest it.............pffffffffffft

Quit crying in your beer......


SSGT ROGER K SMITH JR

Grenada
Lebanon
Honduras (few know or care about what we did there)
Panama

[SgtJane08]

Rooger certainly is animated!

[Caesar Augustus]

I'm not crying. However there are plenty of families who are and its attitudes like yours(whether correct or not) that are why suicides in the military are skyrocketing.

You can try to one up any Marine you want from the current conflicts and someone will always be able to talk about a previous war and one up you. Its always easy to tell everyone else they obviously must be whining when you don't see the people affected by it. Then you stop thinking "was this guy just being a wuss, or was he really messed up"

Its odd how somehow after each war the old group always had it so much harder and find it so easy to look down on the new generation because they had this they had that blah blah.

I know plenty of Marines from my unit who have never once complained to anyone but other Marines about problems yet unless it meets certain criteria in your mind they must be pussies. I'll be sure to tell Marines I knew who want someone to let them cry in their beer to suck it up and remind them they weren't at Iwo, I'm sure thats the best course of action.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I have to agree with CA on this one..100 percent. I am HUMBLED to work with and be around Marines from all wars at my 'fun' job (not the primary job that pays the bills..that job sucks and isn't worth mentioning).

I have been privledged, on this forum, to learn and talk with Marines who've 'seen the elephant' as well.

Now, all that having been said, I don't consider myself (nor does the Marine Corps) a 'combat' veteran, despite the fact that I was AT the Pentagon on 9/11. Not inside mind you, but boots on the ground. Even those inside, BTW, don't rate a 'Combat Action Ribbon'. So I speak not as a 'combat' vet.

I'm now a retired 'veteran'.

When I (reluctantly) tell people I was at the Pentagon on 9/11, (and this used to just really BUG me) they would look at me like some sort of artifact or weirdo LOL. Then it finally dawned on me....I have looked at Pearl Harbor veterans (and seen the look) the EXACT same way.

I guess what I'm getting to, is nobody who wasn't there can grasp or comprehend what we did that day...or that week, or the rest of that month. Trying to explain it to those who weren't there is a waste of time and usually gets off the wall reactions if any, and those who WERE there, well, we don't need to explain it to each other.

I can feel your pain re: your Dad. My dad never served (DQ'd for Scarlet fever) and for years always tried to 'out manly' (?? WTF over) me. I"ve been told that my chronic and severe (VA words not mine) PTSD is 'All in my head and quit whining about it'. (Sound familiar?).

I can continue to rant but what, really, is the point? I think General Kelly hits the nail on the head. Read his speech, too.

[Caesar Augustus]

What I don't get is how he states that most people get out and do just fine, and don't just cope yet last I checked the large majority of vietnam vets sure as **** didn't do just fine after the war and he himself admitted to losing his family etc so obviously he didn't just cope or do just fine initially. That makes no sense whatsoever.

So I guess losing your family etc is coping and doing fine. If thats the case I'll be a pussy and ask for help or help a veteran who needs someone to "whine" to while you can enjoy being caustic and alone.

Funny the veterans he referred to were all recently in a documentary by the guy who directed the sopranos talking about the reality of PTSD. Guess they are all pussies as well and they all did just fine. Guess thats why 39% of incarcerated veterans have PTSD, there is a huge homeless veterans population and the unemployment rate is 24% compared to around 9.1% for us.

So someone is wrong.......

Sgt Lep, you might not be a combat veteran by definition but not knowing what you did at the pentegon no one can say and your comparison to Pearl Harbor makes sense. Tons of people probably never fired a weapon or engaged in combat but they were most definitely terrified they would be killed all while organizing rescue efforts, triaging people, trying to restore order etc.

My dad being military is even worse, he does the same stuff trying to prove he is more of a man. I drew the line when he told me he could've been a Marine if he wanted and just because I was a combat veteran didn't mean **** lol but what he failed to realize was I'd had plenty of experience being challenged(in training and in boredom) by REAL men and thus wasn't worried about proving **** to him.

[radio relay]

Better check again! Most Vietnam Veterans do indeed "do just fine". You may not want to hear it, or accept it, but Vietnam Veterans have been there and done that. This includes the "coming home and living their lives" part. Life truly is the dearest teacher. The young, unfortunately, do not understand it ... until they are old.

Statistically, Vietnam Veterans are no different than the general population (i.e. everybody) as far as success and failure are concerned. The liberal media has a had a field day painting Vietnam Veterans as losers. Just as they have had a field day in painting War On Terror (Iraq and Afghanistan) Veterans as either victims, or maniacs. It serves their agenda, and has nothing to do with reality. Just depends on what liberal cause they are pushing, or which democrat they are trying to get elected.

Truthfully, nobody has a perfect life. No mater what your life experiences!! Some things that you experience will never be understood by others, no matter how much you want them to understand and feel as you do. Nor will you ever truly understand the pain of others'. That's just reality. For the most part, the only people who will truly relate to your time in the war will be those your served with. In many cases it will only be those that were actually in your unit with you. Sometimes, it will only be you.

You may have lost people near to you, in combat with you. That's tough. Real tough! How much tougher than being their father. mother, brother, son, or daughter? You hurt inside. Don't take it out on others.

You don't honor the ones who did not come home by whining and complaining about how unfair, and tough life is. You don't honor them with unending grieving. You honor them by carrying on. Living a good, clean, productive, and honest life. It's what they died for. So that you, and I, and everybody can go on and live as they would have.

Life only has two constants: 1. life's a b!tch, 2. then you die ...

Oh, and yeah, I know you already know all that ... maybe so.

out

[Warbyrd13]

Man I can understand about the lack of support from your family. I have the same problem from my younger sisters an the drama they like to cuase. But that is due for the fact how my mom raised them...

[Caesar Augustus]

Oh I definitely decided to do that. I'm a a junior in college and I take 6 classes a semester, keep myself busy by training, and doing research and not drinking like a fish and generally finding...

[kenrobg30]

I think, personally, that you miss the point.




It is an Issue! And I have to disagree with the negativity that you espouse, I've seen the "elephant" as have many others here on Leatherneck and let me tell you brother, a whole crapload of us have gone though it and come out the other side.

I for 1 WILLINGLY said I will "Support and Defend the Constitution Of the United States of America.....Against ALL Enemies, Foreign and Domestic, NOBODY forced you to take that oath! or didn't you know what you were gettting into? Yes there is a Heavy price WE who take that oath pay......... I payed and I pay to this day........do I have regrets for taking that oath? NEVER,! do I have regrets about what that cost me and my family? You bet......but I, and my family (and I include EVERY Marine who ever was, IS my Family) know the cost and pay it WILLINGLY............ You want recognition? thats what your whining about........



I never wanted recognition......I never needed it.......Knowing what I did and still do...the Ideals that the Corps Instilled in me is enough..


Semper FI Brother:usmc:

I've read your statement twice, and I can't think of anything to add. :usmc: Sempre Fidelis Brother! Ken

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I don't see ANYone here 'whining' or anything of the sort. If that is the perception, I don't get it or see it. What I do see are different generations with different ideas. I fought going to the VA to get assistance because I thought I was a badazz and didn't NEED it. Yeah, well eventually I found out I did. Such is the way of things. Telling ANYone to 'suck it up buttercup' is, in my worthless opine, pure and total bullcrap.

Not only was I at the Pentagon on 9/11, but I spent almost five years working in one of the absolute worst crapholes in the US in (what we called) a 'combat car'. It was 'Ramadi every night' (in the words of a Force Recon operator buddy of mine) and I did that crap for 5 years with NO break. Gang Task Force (Think LAPD CRASH) Major Crimes unit, whole bit.

Bottom line up front...we all got our issues and demons. I wouldn't wish MINE on anyone. But I damn well sure wouldn't tell a fellow 'roller' or Marine to 'suck it up' and quit whining. Because back in the day, we used to tell that to coppers, too. Man up. It doesn't work very well.

Sorry for the rant, just my opine, that's all. Take it for what it's worth, got my own issues for sure LOL.

I STILL agree with the article posted. 100 percent.

[Caesar Augustus]

Thats the funny part. I could easily get 70% if not more disability for PTSD, a TBI, torn rotator cuffs, sensitivity to light from getting blown up, hearing loss etc and I haven't taken it because I'm still of the belief that I don't really need it and on average almost no one I know of who was in Iraq with me has sought much treatment from the VA.

We all still hold the suck it up and deal with it mentality, however some of us know not everyone is going to do as well and for some odd reason we don't feel like stroking our egos while another Marines puts a bullet in his head. Unless of course you'd tell that Marine hes a pussy and no longer think of him with respect because he wasn't a super badass guy like you....which of course we have only your word and your passive aggressive tendencies to vouch for your so called awesomeness.

Then again I'm sure when ya'll got home and complained and whined about being spit on the WWII vets etc said suck it pussy spit washes off.......give me a break.

[Rooger]

Let Me please clarify my statements.....i.e. "Sucking it up".

Please do get the help you need and I'm here if you need me for anything AND I MEAN ANYTHING. I went through the Brecksville VA OH unit when it was open after Lebanon.

I Know they helped me......what I meant by "Sucking it up" WAS USE THE TOOLS the Marine Corps instilled in you!

What I mean by that is.......Improvise, adapt and overcome the problem......what ever it is!

Suck it up Jarhead and get the Damn job done.....whatever it is!

Do I sympathize with what your going through? You bet I do....been there done that......

What Got Me through was my Marine Corps training.

Identify the problem......face it square on and get the job done by whatever means possible.

I know the perception of the general public too well..........but i got to tell you i do not think it is as bad as you perceive.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Thank you sir. Obviously, I mis-interp'ed what you were trying to say. My apologies for that.

Take good care!

v/r
Lep

[Rooger]

I don't see ANYone here 'whining' or anything of the sort. If that is the perception, I don't get it or see it. What I do see are different generations with different ideas. I fought going to the VA to get assistance because I thought I was a badazz and didn't NEED it. Yeah, well eventually I found out I did. Such is the way of things. Telling ANYone to 'suck it up buttercup' is, in my worthless opine, pure and total bullcrap.

Not only was I at the Pentagon on 9/11, but I spent almost five years working in one of the absolute worst crapholes in the US in (what we called) a 'combat car'. It was 'Ramadi every night' (in the words of a Force Recon operator buddy of mine) and I did that crap for 5 years with NO break. Gang Task Force (Think LAPD CRASH) Major Crimes unit, whole bit.

Bottom line up front...we all got our issues and demons. I wouldn't wish MINE on anyone. But I damn well sure wouldn't tell a fellow 'roller' or Marine to 'suck it up' and quit whining. Because back in the day, we used to tell that to coppers, too. Man up. It doesn't work very well.

Sorry for the rant, just my opine, that's all. Take it for what it's worth, got my own issues for sure LOL.

I STILL agree with the article posted. 100 percent.


Sorry LEP on a whole lot of issues you and I agree.....But on this 1?

I gotta say were about 70 degrees off......notice i didn't say 180? LOL

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Lol.... :)

[Caesar Augustus]

Let Me please clarify my statements.....i.e. "Sucking it up".

Please do get the help you need and I'm here if you need me for anything AND I MEAN ANYTHING. I went through the Brecksville VA OH unit when it was open after Lebanon.

I Know they helped me......what I meant by "Sucking it up" WAS USE THE TOOLS the Marine Corps instilled in you!

What I mean by that is.......Improvise, adapt and overcome the problem......what ever it is!

Suck it up Jarhead and get the Damn job done.....whatever it is!

Do I sympathize with what your going through? You bet I do....been there done that......

What Got Me through was my Marine Corps training.

Identify the problem......face it square on and get the job done by whatever means possible.

I know the perception of the general public too well..........but i got to tell you i do not think it is as bad as you perceive.

See so we were on the same page, just different ways of conveying lol.

I completely agree with you.

[Rooger]

See so we were on the same page, just different ways of conveying lol.

I completely agree with you.

Abso....Freaking lutlely were on the same page Brother! How could you think otherwise...... although i didnt make it easy for you :)

[Caesar Augustus]

Abso....Freaking lutlely were on the same page Brother! How could you think otherwise...... although i didnt make it easy for you :)

Well I am a Lcpl.......

I blame it on the the fact we have to use the same comm equipment ya'll used in Vietnam, its getting a bit weathered so some of what we said was "lost in translation" lol

[Rooger]

LMAO We were still using those Vietnam era flak jackets and C-rations and PRC-75's through out the 80's! <br />
<br />
Don't worry about the rank...... <br />
<br />
1 thing A General taught me(Charles C. Krulak) was &quot;...

[Caesar Augustus]

I still used the Vietnam era flak in boot and SOI lol. Then again they also trained us in SOI to fight as in vietnam. They didn't change boot camp and SOI until maybe a year or two after I...

[Rooger]

If I took one thing away from the Corps let alone my deployment it was that no matter how bad you feel about what happened, blame yourself etc as long as what you are doing stupid(aka drinking to much etc) is truly something you don't realize its fine, but the day you do it and know its destroying your life you are ****ing on the very Marines you claim you're in mourning for.


Well Said Brother.....well said:!:

[radio relay]

Thats the funny part. I could easily get 70% if not more disability for PTSD, a TBI, torn rotator cuffs, sensitivity to light from getting blown up, hearing loss etc and I haven't taken it because I'm still of the belief that I don't really need it and on average almost no one I know of who was in Iraq with me has sought much treatment from the VA.

We all still hold the suck it up and deal with it mentality, however some of us know not everyone is going to do as well and for some odd reason we don't feel like stroking our egos while another Marines puts a bullet in his head. Unless of course you'd tell that Marine hes a pussy and no longer think of him with respect because he wasn't a super badass guy like you....which of course we have only your word and your passive aggressive tendencies to vouch for your so called awesomeness.

Then again I'm sure when ya'll got home and complained and whined about being spit on the WWII vets etc said suck it pussy spit washes off.......give me a break.

Funny how the young Marines that complain (whine?) so much about being "mistreated" and disrespected by everyone, especially by "older" Marines, sure don't mind dishing it out to others. Snide remarks and thinly veiled, disrespectful innuendo obviously aimed at, and intended to insult Marines that are Vietnam Veterans, who are doing little more than trying to pass on some of our own life's lessons learned, is an insult.

Sorry ... But living your life and not dwelling on all your problems is not being "badass". It's just dealing with reality. Dwelling on your problems and complaining that life isn't fair, and then slamming those who really have been there and are just trying to be helpful, is childish, at best.

I'd like to point out that a large number of those people lined up to praise Marines coming back and currently serving, are us Vietnam Veterans. We want to make sure you don't have to wash the spit off. We also want to see you go on and make something of yourselves, not stay in self pity mode, because we do understand, and we do appreciate it.

[HST]

I'd be a real b*ich to loose a kid....all the bad things I can think of that is about the worst. As far as the rest, I said it in another thread; the American people know there's a war, they know that people are getting killed and wounded every day, they just don't care.

We've had guns and butter in every war since WWII, there's no rationing, no sacrifice, no draft, no danger that little Johnney will get pulled out of college and sent over there to fight and maybe die or come home missing some parts. We have baseball, football, food and drink, the rich are getting richer and the poor are joining the military to fight their war.

Pass a draft law, require 2 years of national service, start to ration things, make the American people, rich and poor share the hardships and the war will end very quickly.

[Mongoose]

I'd be a real b*ich to loose a kid....all the bad things I can think of that is about the worst. As far as the rest, I said it in another thread; the American people know there's a war, they know that people are getting killed and wounded every day, they just don't care.

We've had guns and butter in every war since WWII, there's no rationing, no sacrifice, no draft, no danger that little Johnney will get pulled out of college and sent over there to fight and maybe die or come home missing some parts. We have baseball, football, food and drink, the rich are getting richer and the poor are joining the military to fight their war.

Pass a draft law, require 2 years of national service, start to ration things, make the American people, rich and poor share the hardships and the war will end very quickly.
Tony, you have my vote, if you ever stoop low enough to run for office.