Lets Talk Marine Corps Packs and duece gear

[Old Marine]

I guess by now there is no such thing in the Marine Corps as a Marching Pack, or Field Marching Pack. I imagine they have served their purpose and the Corps has moved on to something else by now. If you ever carried a blanket roll all rolled nice and tight with you half of the shelter half rolled on the outside of the blanket to keep it dry, you know what I am talking about. Maybe that makes you Old Corps, maybe not.

Do they still have "E" Tools, aluminum cups & canteens, field mess kits??

Been wondering about tyhis for a while.:evilgrin:

[Yonkers]

I guess by now there is no such thing in the Marine Corps as a Marching Pack, or Field Marching Pack. I imagine they have served their purpose and the Corps has moved on to something else by now. If you ever carried a blanket roll all rolled nice and tight with you half of the shelter half rolled on the outside of the blanket to keep it dry, you know what I am talking about. Maybe that makes you Old Corps, maybe not.

Do they still have "E" Tools, aluminum cups & canteens, field mess kits??

Been wondering about tyhis for a while.:evilgrin:
We had all that stuff in boot camp and MCT... don't know if they actually use them in the actual field though...:D

[chulaivet1966]

If you ever carried a blanket roll all rolled nice and tight with you half of the shelter half rolled on the outside of the blanket to keep it dry, you know what I am talking about. Maybe that makes you Old Corps, maybe not.

Do they still have "E" Tools, aluminum cups & canteens, field mess kits??

Been wondering about this for a while.:evilgrin:

Wow....memories....I recall all stated above.
Prior to rotating to CONUS I began to see plastic canteens being issued.
I remember terms like 'knapsack' and 'haversack' but forget the differences between them.

Responses should be very educating for me.

[Cpl Heglar]

Ahhh the old ALICE pack I remember that one well Gunney.

All-purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/23/Alice10.jpg/220px-Alice10.jpg

[FoxtrotOscar]

Those packs your talking about were the Bradford USMC 1941 Pack System still in use when I was in..

http://www.military-historians.org/publications/journal/samples/BradfordPack.pdf

[Old Marine]

Ahhh the old ALICE pack I remember that one well Gunney.

All-purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/23/Alice10.jpg/220px-Alice10.jpg

The Alice pack I never heard of. Looks like it has a frame on it. Oh, I forgot about the Field Transport Pack which had the long blanket roll on it.:evilgrin:

[Old Marine]

We had all that stuff in boot camp and MCT... don't know if they actually use them in the actual field though...:D

Did they give you classes on the subject pack system?:evilgrin:

[Old Marine]

Those packs your talking about were the Bradford USMC 1941 Pack System still in use when I was in..

http://www.military-historians.org/publications/journal/samples/BradfordPack.pdf

This is the pack system we had when I enlisted and I never saw another pack but this one before retirement.:evilgrin:

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: 782 Gear Oh Hell Yeah...Rucksac too...Stole an ALICE Pack or Requistened it from U.S.ARMY (LRRPS) while in Country lefT Them ELITE Boys with my Old Chit (lmao) You snooze You loose...As far as The E-Tool the wooden Handled one 2 Me is The Best edged Weapon in The WORLD Just ask the NVA We decapitated with that Bad Boy...Still keep 1 On the Floor Board of our Truck S/F India 3 out~~~:thumbup: :iwo:

[Zulu 36]

I used the old M1941 pack system, although the other 782 gear was a bit more modern due to Vietnam and M-16 use. We (non-grunt units in 1stMarDiv) swapped over to ALICE packs around 1976ish.

It was kind of funny using the same pack system my father did thirty-years earlier.

[ryanficken]

Do they still have "E" Tools, aluminum cups & canteens, field mess kits??

Been wondering about tyhis for a while.:evilgrin:

Still use E-tools, canteens and canteen cups. Not so much the field mess kits. What present-day Marines are humping around is the ILBE (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILBE)). In the picture, it's the Marine on the right's pack:

http://www.kevinwebb22.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/121109mc_backpack_800-300x199.jpg

Given, it's undoubtedly more comfortable than packs prior to it, it's also larger, giving way to more packing items, and exaggerated packing lists. Who needs 5 skivvie shirts, 2 different sleeping bags and a rape whistle for a 3-day field op?

[micarr57]

had the small pack in boot got issued an alice pack at my first duty station no frame just the pack ...still got it today

[Quinbo]

What about the ass pack?

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I'm well familiar with ALL these systems as I have to work with them as part of my job at the USMCHC.

The '41 Pack system consisted of 2 basic parts, the Haversack and Knapsack. Both held together by a web belt...or YOUR web belt, as it was designed that way. A large instruction manual came with this system, which, with amendments, additions, and such, lasted until approx. 1968 (and later in the reserves). FYI, that system actually fielded a NYLON pack for a very, very short time and is considered 'rare' on the collector market today.

The '41 system, designed for and used ONLY by the Marine Corps, went out 'officially' thanks to the machinations of McNamara, who couldn't understand why each service branch had different packs and equipment. While the idea of 'standard' gear was underway since about 1955 (and the army issued a whole new set of stuff in '56, known today by that number as 'M-56' gear) the Marine Corps continued, with it's pack at least, to have a separate set of equipment. Some things were standardized, such as the e-tool and carrier, and the pistol belt (except for the M-14 carrier belt which had snaps for the ammo pouches, this was only issued to the Marine Corps).

When the ALICE system came on line circa 1970, everyone got the same stuff, like it or not. There were 2 packs in the ALICE system, the Medium, and the lesser known 'large'. Mediums with frames were standard issue for Marines well into the '90's.

The 'small' pack was also known as the 'buttpack' and was an army idea (stolen from our 2 pack system as well as their own 2 pack system, the M-1945 Combat pack and Knapsack). The buttpack was very popular and continued to be seen and used, in both canvas and nylon versions, well into the late 1990's.

FYI, the Marine Corps, in addition to it's own pack system, had it's own suspenders well into the 60's as well. All this was replaced with the ALICE system.

ALICE itself was upgraded several times and eventually replaced, at least at the MEU level, with the really horrible early MOLLE I pack system, which only lasted about a year due to it's crappy construction.

MOLLE III is now 'on the street' so to speak and the Corps is FINALLY back to issuing 'Marine Corps specific' field gear. Coyote brown is the dominate color for the most part. ILBE is a good system from what I hear.

Canteens are quickly being supplanted by the ever popular camelback. Mess kits haven't been made for several years now and I believe that they have been phased out. We were issued them in 1998, at least.

What the Marines carry in the field is very different from what they carry in Recruit Training.

Oh and the new boots (google 'RAT boot') are out, and the Corps is fielding a completely NEW seabag design, too. Basically a large cart on wheels very much like a luggage cart. Saw one this past weekend and they are SWEEEET.

For those feeling generous, the USMCHC is ALWAYS in search of new field gear to add to our displays. Drop me a PM, lets talk.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Here is a link showing the M1941 Pack, it's parts, and how to wear it. Not my link but good information!!!

http://m1pencil.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/usmc-m1941-pack-configuration-guide/

[Sgt Leprechaun]

http://quanticoboot.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/bk8ldvgbwkkgrhqeh-eues7w8dw11blzkfd5rjq_31.jpg?w=600&h=450 (http://quanticoboot.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/bk8ldvgbwkkgrhqeh-eues7w8dw11blzkfd5rjq_31.jpg)

These are the RAT boots. I've seen em but at 200 a pop a bit too expensive for my blood at the moment. Want to get a pair..eventually.
http://quanticomilitaryboots.wordpress.com/2010/05/07/the-new-danner-cold-weather-mountain-light-aka-the-rat-boot/

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Here's a bit on the camelback, and the ILBE system:

http://www.military-backpacks.com/ilbe/ilbe-hydration-system/

A good little ebay guide to the ILBE packs available out there.

http://reviews.ebay.com/GUIDE-TO-THE-ILBE-ARCTERYX-PACK-SYSTEM-MARINE-ISSUE_W0QQugidZ10000000004421945

[tracs1833]

When I went in (1969), I used the pattern 1941 Haversack (top portion) and knapsack (bottom portion), pattern 1941 suspenders (two individual straps- we used a grenade ring in the back to keep the suspenders together), pattern 1961 rifle belt (it had evenly spaced female grommets around it with which you would fasten the male grommet on the M17 mag pouch - we carried 4), aluminum canteen (shortly replaced with a green plastic one (it did not have the "straw" hole in the top for use with gas masks), canteen cover (my first issue was the khaki 'rabbit ear' style of WWII vintage), first aid pouch (my first issue was a khaki rectangular one dated 1941 as I recall), folding e tool (shovel only, did not have a pick attachment on it), M1956 e tool carrier (had the leather strip that you could fasten your bayonet to if you wore your shovel on your rifle belt - that must have been an army thing as I never saw the e tool attached any place other than the back of your haversack). Most of us, as I recall, attached out bayonet/scabbard to the bottom of our foremost left M14 mag pouch. This is as I remember from 40 plus years ago, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
What I also remember is that when we switched over from the M14 to the M16 we were not issued new mag pouches. Since we were reservists, and not in combat, it really didn't make a lot of difference. It just took a while to slide the 20 round m16 mags up until they reached the top of the M14 mag pouch (the M16 mags were significantly shorter than the M14 mags).

[wildwoman73]

I remember the Alice pack. Very well. I remember learning how to cram chit inside of it quickly and make the OUTSIDE of it look squared away. I remember the very first time we ever force marched with it. Was from receiving to 4th BTN. It was rainy and muggy and the swamp stench had just the right aroma to make you want to barf. I remember the first lesson in "watching out for my fellow recruits". Some dip chit didn't secure (or cram) thier locking cable correctly.


As we were miserably trucking along at warp speed, I saw it on the deck. I leaned over to quickly pick it up (as one of my fellow sisters would surely miss it, being as it locked our M16's to our racks) and every bit of CRAP packed in that dang thing shifted and landed me square on my head. Not to worry though. My trusty cavalar protected my grape. However being yelled at by 6 screeching, nagging, biotching women while I somehow got rolled over on my back feeling like a turtle in a shell was NOT my idea to "Welcome to 4th BTN".

[Caesar Augustus]

I went to boot and used the alice pack, got to the fleet and was issued the molle, deployed and went to SIF and got the whatever the **** they call it pack. Still have it along with my SAPI....Talked to a new Marine last year and said they use the same **** save for the fact the flak now has a pull away cord so it separates into four pieces so we don't drown in canals in iraq. WHen I was in we were ****ing turtles if you ended up on your back lol

[Sgt Leprechaun]

You sir, (tracs)are spot on! Here is the belt:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_10_2010/post-342-1288066350.jpg
(Pic from the US Mitaria forum)

Here are the pouches:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//post-5-1170785009.jpg
(Also from USMF)

[Sgt Leprechaun]

The first aid pouch you got, tracs, was the "Jungle" first aid kit developed by, and for, Marines after Guadalcanal. Should have been a 'boxey' type thing. 'Probably' dated 42-44, unless all you got was the standard 'Carlisle' bandage pouch that looked like a wallet with a lift the dot on the front. Those were dated '41.

[Caesar Augustus]

Here's a bit on the camelback, and the ILBE system:

http://www.military-backpacks.com/ilbe/ilbe-hydration-system/

A good little ebay guide to the ILBE packs available out there.

http://reviews.ebay.com/GUIDE-TO-THE-ILBE-ARCTERYX-PACK-SYSTEM-MARINE-ISSUE_W0QQugidZ10000000004421945

Is that what they named it. I remember it had just come out when I was deploying. I'm glad because they didn't have enough of them in Lejeune so I didn't get my gear till cax and since they took my molle gear at lejeune thats the last record of me having gear hence why I have all the stuff they mass issued at cax.

I use it to train now that I'm going to re-enlist

[Caesar Augustus]

We got issued an IFAK(individual first aid kit) that had the new tourney, and quick clot so we could powder any wounds that needed to quickly be stopped. It cauterized the wound shut. I did hear they actually stopped using it because either it was used to much(by morons not trained properly) or because idk because it left scars due to its burning factor

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Correct on the quikclot, it's been replaced, not sure with what though.

[Caesar Augustus]

I still don't see why they replaced it. It was efficient if messy. Most wounds during my time in Iraq 05-06(fallujah etc) were ones you died from either instantly, almost so or not even worth the 9 line they were called over.

[tracs1833]

Yes, Sgt Leprechaun, that is the rifle belt and M1r4 mag pouches I started with. I did not have the 'jungle' first aid pouch but the one for the carlisle bandage. And since we were not using the carlisle bandage, my first aid pouch was virtually useless. I could carry a few band aids or such in it but not much. Since I was in Amtracs, we had a vehicle first aid kit to rely on.
If you go to my profile page and look at the photos, you'll see one of my photos of me wearing pretty much the uniform of my time at a Marine Corps living history display I did this past March up at Jamestown, VA.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Yeah, those Carlisle pouches were pretty well worthless, which is why the USMC went to the 'Jungle' kit eventually. Much better overall. Eventually the Jungle kit is adopted across the military and morphs into the 'Kit, First Aid', in the nylon pouch and green plastic box 'newer' Marines will recall.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Cool! Love the Mule too.

[ryanficken]

RAT boots are garbage. About a year ago, just before we deployed, we were told that the boots were in a test phase, and our input was encouraged. I'll tell you firsthand that they don't breath well (or at all, really), they're constricting, keep moisture in, are hot, and a good portion of Marines managed to tear them up through seven months of patrols. All of those, and you can't wear them in garrison, since they're a 'combat boot'. Honestly, I stuck to my trusty boot camp issued jungle boots for the majority of our deployment. They have holes for breathability and drainage, fit well around the foot, never uncomfortable, they're not designated as a 'combat boot', and I still wear the same boots every day here in garrison. They've got a few tears and blemishes, but they're still looking good after 2 years, 7 months of that being in country.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: Sgt.B-The Fanny Pack was very well used...Used too carry 250's Rnd's of M-60 Ammo all of My Squad did in tha BUSH.Hell I even used an Old Demo Bag full of 12 Gauge Rnd's when I humped also...Used alot of #4!!! 00 in tha Rear with tha Beer S/F :beer: :thumbup:

[Caesar Augustus]

RAT boots are garbage. About a year ago, just before we deployed, we were told that the boots were in a test phase, and our input was encouraged. I'll tell you firsthand that they don't breath well (or at all, really), they're constricting, keep moisture in, are hot, and a good portion of Marines managed to tear them up through seven months of patrols. All of those, and you can't wear them in garrison, since they're a 'combat boot'. Honestly, I stuck to my trusty boot camp issued jungle boots for the majority of our deployment. They have holes for breathability and drainage, fit well around the foot, never uncomfortable, they're not designated as a 'combat boot', and I still wear the same boots every day here in garrison. They've got a few tears and blemishes, but they're still looking good after 2 years, 7 months of that being in country.

Are those the ones that didn't have the EGA on them? I know we wore a different boot, when we deployed. They were far far lighter, didn't get wet hardly but they had no cushion what so ever and were not supposed to be worn stateside even though a bunch of did because we liked them better.

I still have them but yea after one deployment they definitely were not serviceable.

[doc h fmf]

I LOVED THE FANNY PACKS THEY WERE MORE COMFORTABLE THEN THE UNIT ONES.
if i had to run the fanny pack did fling all around like the unit ones

I WONDER IF OTHER CORPMAN FEEL THAT WAy


SEMPER FI


STEPHEN DOC HANSEN

[Sgt Leprechaun]

INTeresting! Thanks for that candid observation on the boots Ryan.

Thanks, too, Doc, for your perspective on this. They now issue a big ole 3 part nylon bag as the 'a' bag (is that what it's called?). I'm not up on my 'doc stuff though.

[surly95]

These are interesting posts. I know that when I was in (1990-1995) we had the ALICE system, but most of the time S-4 never had the whole system in-stock so Marines had partial sets and did without. It was rare to see a pack frame, and even rarer to see a Large pack, only RECON got those, and they were called Rucks. Most of what we were using in the early 90s was not that different from the Vietnam issue, accept we were using plastic canteens by then, and they were bad because they tended to keep the taste of things that were absorbed into the plastic. The old H-Harness, Cartridge Belt, M-16 ammo pouches, canteens, and first aid kits were about it, the rest went on, or in the pack. We only carried up to one extra set of utilities, and yes we had the E-Tool, but it was not as good as the earlier versions. I have seen the new systems and I am not impressed. I use the one I was trained with when Elk and Deer hunting. I find camel backs are nice, but I still like two canteens better. Guess all Marines are creatures of habbit.<o:p></o:p>

[Bruce59]

In 1960 we had the field transport pack, as Sgt. Lep.
said two pack held together with a belt. Now here is a
story some of you might have heard about the field
transport pack an Chesty Puller when he was at
Camp Lejeune in the late 50s. Chesty ordered the hole
Batt. to pack all there gear field transport packs for a
20 mile force march. So the next day the hole batt. was
assembled, and with Chesty at the front, off they went
on their 20 mile march. At 10 miles out Chesty halted
the Batt. for a 5 min break, then told evey one to take
off there boots and put them in a trailer being pulled by a jeep as the jeep slowly passed by. Then he told every
one to take out your extra boots out of your packs and
put them on. Well all I can say is there was a lot of
Marines who walk back the next 10 miles in there socks.
This is an old story, I am not sure its ture or not, but
with Chesty anything is possible.