Need help, saluting?

[koedyker89]

Okya, first Im a Cpl on IA with the AF and in the Centcom AOR. Now the AF is all worked up because I have not been saluting the AF officers because as Marines we one do not salute in the AOR, and second they have field cheverons on.

Am i Right or wrong? not opinons i want to see proof to show these AF guys that im not a retard.

[brian0351]

If you can find the Marine Corps order that says you don't have to salute...show that.

But is it really worth the hassle? AF wants their salute...would it kill you to do so?

[koedyker89]

No, but why bend the rules. if this once then why not for other rules? If i get a DWI should we bend those rules. A order is an order and they are now out to make me look bad as a Marine NCO an I cant have them telling me how to be a Marine. you know?

[0331 2 0369]

All depends on where you are. Some bases/fobs in the AO are "saluting" saluting bases/fobs. Since you are attached to them you need to follow their rules for saluting around base/camp/fob.

To the best of my knowledge, what you are referring to is simply a verbal tradition. I never saw anything in writing during my time.

[Old Marine]

Give them a salute and go on with life.

[Tennessee Top]

During my career, I learned you have to pick your battles. Situations are different and sometimes, you may even have to bend the rules a little.

I know what you mean about dealing with the AF. When I was at the USCENTCOM Hq, MacDill AFB, Tampa, my boss was an AF major and I had AF and Army troops working for me. Talk about a leadership challenge! I had to keep reminding myself they were not Marines so I could not expect them to act/perform like Marines. It was one of my toughest duty assignments. Don't think the Major ironed his shirt or wiped off his corfam shoes the entire time I worked with him...amazing.

[chulaivet1966]

During my career, I learned you have to pick your battles. .

IMO....astute and correct....therefore, end of story.
Don't create some petty grief for yourself on this point, adapt and overcome.

My .02 cents is likely worth even less these days.

[Zulu 36]

If they insist on being sniper bait, it's their business.

[EchoFifeSerria]

Since you are attached to them you need to follow their rules for saluting around base/camp/fob.

I have been attached to many different units (including the Air Force) while in the Corps and you always have to play by their rules. Let then do their thing and move on. It sucks, but it's better then causing problems that you will still be dealing with latter on in your carrier.

...Ask me how I know...

[Zulu 36]

I have been attached to many different units (including the Air Force) while in the Corps and you always have to play by their rules. Let then do their thing and move on. It sucks, but it's better then causing problems that you will still be dealing with latter on in your carrier.

...Ask me how I know...

How do you know? The world wonders. Nah, just kidding. I have a vivid imagination.

During Desert Storm, a bunch of guys from my Guard unit thought it would be funny to salute US Air Force officers British style. Having learned in the past how to do it correctly, I confess that I taught them (it's not always that troop and stomp stuff).

They completely got away with it for several days until they high-balled an officer who had been an enlisted Marine. He didn't bite and the game was up. Actually, he took the joke pretty well, but told them to knock it off.

Dealing with other services can be a pain sometimes. You've just got to muddle through. Refer back to the other Marine Corps mottoes of "Semper Gumby," and "You don't have to like the order, you just have to do it."

[USNAviator]

Here's what I would do if I were you, as I can see you are determined not to salute unless forced to.
Allow them to give you an Article 15. There are two boxes to check, you accept it or no, you do not accept it and you demand trial by court-martial. Then they will either back down or go ahead and convene a Special Court-Martial and then you will have the satisfaction of knowing you did not back down.
How's that? That's good advice for someone who has an issue with saluting an officer from another branch of the same armed forces.
Let me know how it turns out.

Remember that you have rights as a military member, and you do not have to accept an Article 15.
Most do, for obvious reasons, but depending on just how strongly you feel about this very small incident, you can take it all the way.


Good advice Dave. Normally I kid you about being a former Air Force JAG but I think in this situation your advice should be taken to heart

[USNAviator]

Oh, it's not because of that, Dan, I could care less what branch the officers are in who are giving him such a horrible horrible time. My point is, that he doesn't have to sit still and be persecuted like that. Make an appointment to see a JAG there and find out what rights he can demand.
I cannot believe that any member of the armed services would actually salute an officer of any other branch of the same armed services.
It's one of the signs of our sad times, I guess.


There were few times I had any contact with a member of another service, other than Marines of course. Marines always saluted.

I think you were the one who told me about being on an AF base with foreign pilots who had enough gold braid that you thought they were at least a Major General. Turns out they were 1st and 2nd Lts.

[USNAviator]

I see your point Dave. It will be interesting to see which wins out here, orders or individual rights <br />
<br />
BTW, not only did all Marines salute but they gave the best salute of any branch I've ever...

[GT6238]

OK...I pointed this out in another post not too long ago....back in the day when I was a lowly L/Cpl or PFC....I was walking around in National (now Reagan) Airport in DC waiting for a plane. I was uncovered since I was indoors. Around the corner comes a crapload of foreign (Asian) Brass all medalled and ribboned. Along with them was an assortment of Air Force and Army brass. What to do? What to do? So I figured it's better to salute than not salute and I knocked off a good one. They all saluted back and went on their way...

No harm no problem.

[Marine3451]

There Is no Marine Corps Order or MarAdmin on the subject. Its is up to the local commander.

[Marine3451]

General Order 10

To salute all officers and all colors and standards not cased


Pretty sure the general order doesnt say Marine Officers only.

[Zulu 36]

I also remember the fond advice of one of my Drill Instructors. He said, if there are no obvious signs of enlisted rank on the their sleeve, but something shiny on their collar or epaulet, salute, even if you think it might just be lint.

Always got me through. If it was a private, I just dropped the salute, called him back and got my revenge by getting on him for lint on his uniform.

[TheReservist]

The OP said that he was in centcom meaning that he could be in a hostile area...

So he may just be wanting to watch out for the persec of the officers there. As he said that they were wearing the subdued chevrons, i.e. not the shiny ones.

Saluting an officer in a hostile AO could be an indicator to a sniper that the person is important, as the reason that many Fobs/cops have no saluting rules and that you don't salute outside the wire too.

[Zulu 36]

I think it may actually be required, but even if it is not, it is common practice for enlisted of any branch and officers of any branch to salute commissioned officers of any branch who are more senior than you are.

Does anyone know if it is required?

I know it is general/common practice to do so.

It is required AND it is required to salute officers of allied foreign nations too. I saluted a bunch of Japanese, German, Italian officers and more over the years. Where ever I went, I made it my business to learn what officer ranks looked like in that country.

Since I always saluted like a Marine, Italian Air Force officers loved the snap and verbal greeting in their language. They never got decent salutes from their troops. They'd stop me me and have me demonstrate my salute again several times. They were just so tickled. Hey, if a sharp salute helps relations among allies, I'm up for it.

[TheReservist]

When he made the comment about the field chevrons, I think he did. As they have made chevrons for officers that are no longer shiny. The gold is now a subdued sand desert tan color and the silver is black. They've gotten rid of the shine for officers for when theyre deployed

[TheReservist]

Being on one of the big fobs, like al asad, in Iraq was like being a world away from combat.

[Marine3451]

I just checked the CentCom website and the AOR is something like 18 Countries. If your in one of those areas or countries that is not a combat area you would be rquired to salute. Does the OP care to give more detail about the area. Because if you chilling in kuwait thats a little different than the Helmand providence

[Marine3451]

Yeah definetly some circumstances we are not hearing. I was stationed on the same base as US PACOM for 2 years and the only peolple i seen griping about having to salute Army/Air Force officers where boots until they got set straight quickly

[Mongoose]

I was just a grunt with a 10th grade education. But Im smart enough to realize that an officer, no matter what branch. Was able to do something I couldnt. For that, he has my respect and my salute. As I never thought I was better than any officer.

[Marine3451]

Just a little side story. I was over in South Korea i did a joint exercise with the ROK Marines. Every one of their enlisted Marines Saluted us when we walked past them whether you were a boot private or a General as a sign of respect. Didnt even matter if they outranked you.

[TheReservist]

Yeah, it's even better. Our enlisted have higher education levels, we have pushed more leadership positions down to them, and have reworked the training so that Marines get the most realistic and indepth training of not only tactics but also of culture and technology.

We wouldn't have been able to do this without learning from the older generations.

[Zulu 36]

Just a little side story. I was over in South Korea i did a joint exercise with the ROK Marines. Every one of their enlisted Marines Saluted us when we walked past them whether you were a boot private or a General as a sign of respect. Didnt even matter if they outranked you.

There is nothing that says enlisted personnel can't salute one another. It is a military sign of respect. However, the rules do make saluting officers mandatory.

Also, custom and tradition has Marines saluting unaccompanied ladies. It's the equivalent of tipping our hat. MPs did this all of the time at the gates of Lejuene and Pendleton, even if the car bore an enlisted decal.

[USNAviator]

There is nothing that says enlisted personnel can't salute one another. It is a military sign of respect. However, the rules do make saluting officers mandatory.

Also, custom and tradition has Marines saluting unaccompanied ladies. It's the equivalent of tipping our hat. MPs did this all of the time at the gates of Lejuene and Pendleton, even if the car bore an enlisted decal.


Chris am I mistaken but don't Marines, while in uniform, salute known officers who are in civilian clothes?

[Zulu 36]

Chris am I mistaken but don't Marines, while in uniform, salute known officers who are in civilian clothes?


We did when I was in.

[USNAviator]

Dan---the post about officers in civvies----That reminds me, on a camping trip to Yukon Territory and Alaska in 1973 in a VW bug, from the East Coast, saw Great Lakes Naval Recruit Training Base, my passenger was a Navy guy, James Bamford, the one who wrote The Puzzle Palace and other books about NSA etc--- I said, hey, let's see if the recruits are all doing the right thing. He said oh no, don't go in there, you can't go in there, but this was 1973 so I went in there, saw a recruit walking. I pulled up to him and asked why he wasn't running like everyone else. He said "I aint' about to run as long as I can get away with walking". I said, you would run if we were two Navy officers in civilian clothes wouldn't you? His face dropped and he stood up and saluted us, and said "Yes, sir, THEN I'd run". And I said then get going and get out of here before you get a General Court-Martial, and he took off running like an antelope all the way out of sight.
I followed him for several blocks to make sure he didn't stop and my friend said "Lets' get out of here while we can".

Gotta keep them Navy recruits in line.


Great story Dave!!!!!Those swabbies will believe anything you Marines tell them.....:D

[Rocky C]

We did when I was in.

Me too Chris :thumbup:

[USNAviator]

We did when I was in.

Chris and Rocky, that's what I was told as well.

[BauerBrat]

Chris and Rocky, that's what I was told as well.


Yes Commander we did that as well and were told to include a greeting with the salute such as "Good afternoon Sir" If you recognized an officer who was in civvies and you were in uniform, you saluted. Don't know if any other branch does that.

[USNAviator]

That can be pushed too far.

A week or two ago, on a Friday, I guess it was a week ago last Friday, when Dan and I met for a three and a half hour lunch in Harvard Square, he wore Admiral's dress whites and expected me to salute him. He would not order lunch until they fired off several rounds from cannons as a salute.

He insisted on 21 but they gave him two or three and he was satisfied, said there was little respect nowadays for Naval aviators, but eventually we had a good healthy lunch of double cheeseburgers at a Harv Sq legend, Charlies Kitchen.

I just wish he had shown up in civvies.


Was it only three and a half hours? It seemed like weeks. A man can only take so much talk of torts and briefs and motions, then he started talking about law terms

The reason I wore my O-5 uniform is because you said you'd be wearing your AF JAG baby blues, replete with powdered wig. But instead you show up in your tennis whites and try jumping over every waitress you could find wearing a hair net. That's not the type of net they meant

[USNAviator]

I have said time and time again on this site that in a verbal sparring match with the Commander, I always come in a poor second. This will be no exception. I'm just waiting for the axe to fall. Maybe the Navy doesn't have axes, though.

We do Dave, they are used to break through the bulkheads of bs

[Phantom Blooper]

Salute when you see the whites of their eyes or a big Illuminati tattoo in the middle of the forehead!:beer:

[MD8724]

Okay gents. OP here is from MCB Butler G6 on Okinawa. I've known a few guys like him who went on this TAD billet. So, to OP, and everyone else, let me give you a little advice.

Not saluting these officers would be stupid. I don't care about any USMC Orders for or against it, or any personal pride that Marines should have. Not only should OP salute, he should brew the coffee for them in the mornings, make their damn beds, and suck their dicks.

I'm not being a smart ass. OP is attached to an AF command. Just like many USMC commands, these AF dudes don't know **** about the Pro/Con marks that they will give him. If he makes them happy, he will walk out of there with at least 4.8/4.8, as many other Marines have done before him (Stojo, McKean, Fox, Sceranka,...).

OP, if you want to be a high and mighty falsely motivated Marine, then **** em. If you want to get promoted to Sgt 9 months early, do what the **** they say.

[joseywales]

do you realize you are in Open squad bay, not in the Hooch?

[CrockettJW]

I'd be interested in hearing more of the back-story on this. Is the OP a person who regularly has arguments with the AF officers?

What about communicating with the officers he refuses to salute for the reasons that he's mentioned?

When I was in Iraq as a former Marine and a current Navy officer, I was well aware of the notion of not saluting when snipers might be around. When I was on one particular patch of Camp Slayer, I didn't salute at all. In the Green Zone, I saluted US and foreign officers all the time, including Iraqi generals in and out of uniform. These guys got a kick out of it and really appreciated it, too.

When I saw Marines, these guys would sometimes salute and sometimes they wouldn't, but when they wouldn't, they'd still look me in the eye and render the proper greeting. I can't say the same thing for Army soldiers who often avoided eye contact.

We had this one Marine master sergeant who never, ever saluted me, but if I saw him outdoors, he would make eye contact and wave below the waist with his right hand. I think I heard every reference to gay sailors from this master sergeant, but I never, ever thought to myself that he was being disrespectful.

[Vandrel]

Last time I deployed we were told to salute once we rotated back to TQ to transition back home. Needless to say, none of us did so and I don't think anyone gave a hoot anyway. But that was then.

FOBbits will never change their ways