Back home from Nam

[USNAviator]

I wanted to start this thread about what it was like for the Marines on here to come home to America after having been in Vietnam.

It was a different country 40-45 years ago. I've talked with some members via PM and ran it by them out of respect

Gentleman, please feel free to share what you want. I think it's important that the poolees, wanabees and the civilian public know and understand what you went through when you came home

The first time someone thanked me for my service was in 2003. If it hadn't been for 9/11 2001, I suspect I'd still be waiting

Many of you have called me brother. I can think of no higher praise for a Squid than to be called brother by a Marine

Fair winds and following seas

[Cpl Heglar]

This Marine is planning on buying you a cold tasty beverage very soon Dan.

[ChuckH]

My first night back I ended up sleeping in the Los Angeles airport Jan 1970. We went through processing at Norton AFB and got to LAX to late to catch a flight home. The next moring I had to catch a flight to San Jose, CA while walking through the terminal I had 2 hippie chicks come up to me and call me a baby killer and spit at me.
While on the short flight from LAX to San Jose, an older woman (40 something) sat next to me who was a school teacher.. we chatted a bit and told her I was coming home after 2 tours in Vietnam... as we departed from the plane, she came over to me and gave me a big hug and said Thank You for doing what you do and slipped something in my hand and said this for the taxi...
I didnt look at it until I hailed a cab... she slipped me a $100.00 bill..
This was back in 1970 when a $100.00 was ALOT of money..never knew who she was or what her name was....
I havent thought about that in 30 something years...
Thanks Dan for the memory jog....:thumbup:

[m14ed]

With all due respect Commander, I don't think you're going to get many favorible posts on this question.

The Civilian Population here at home, wasn't overly pleased to see us return.
"Not counting family and brother veterans"
Civilians can all take a "Flying *UCK
at a rolling donut."

Welcome Home Brothers
"dont look for me at the parade"

[USNAviator]

With all due respect Commander, I don't think you're going to get many favorible posts on this question.

The Civilian Population here at home, wasn't overly pleased to see us return.
"Not counting family and brother veterans"
Civilians can all take a "Flying *UCK
at a rolling donut."

Welcome Home Brothers
"dont look for me at the parade"



Ed anything you want to say is OK. Favorable, unfavorable it makes no difference. There are so many people in this country who have no clue as to what it was like when all of you came home

[Cpl Heglar]

Ed anything you want to say is OK. Favorable, unfavorable it makes no difference. There are so many people in this country who have no clue as to what it was like when all of you came home

It was horrific to say the least and I personally applaud you for this thread Dan. Thank-you to all the Vietnam veterans that served proudly I hope that you can forgive the arrogant edjucated rectums that gave you a hard time upon your return.

:iwo:

[Mongoose]

Dan, I think the hardest part for me to grasp, was that everyone acted like there wasnt a damn thing going on. It was like you woke up from dreaming a war was going on. Those that knew you had been in Nam. Never asked about it or commented on it. It was like it didnt exist. I remember wondering if these people didnt know there was thousands of young men getting killed and wounded. Hell, I was afraid to even ask any of the guys I hadnt seen in years, if they had been to Nam. You never knew who was for you or who was against you, or how they would react. So, other than my friends and family I just kept my mouth shut.

[DRB]

Thank you for your service Vietnam vets!

[Zulu 36]

Well, I got called a baby killer while home on boot leave. My father beat the dog crap out of the guy for saying it. Cost the guy some time in the hospital getting his face put back together (my...

[Bruce59]

Right off the bat I'd like to say I am not a "Vietnam Vet" I am a Vietnam
era Vet. Got out of Marine Corps in Nov.27,1963 The war officially started
in 1964. I would just like to say that the men and women that fought that
war are my heros, because with all the crap they took when they came home. Because they would not let their dead brothers go with out honor.
So the Vietnam Vets would put up a Wall of names to help give closure for
them and the families of the dead and missing. They would not forget their brothers and sisters.

[rufus1]

It was after dark when we got into California and a friends wife had him a car waiting so he took several of us to LAX. I bought my ticket and it was a direct flight to Charlotte, N.C. but it was close to boarding time. I ran towards the gate attempting to make it then the metal detector, After setting it off several times I got to the boarding site and the plane was pulling away. Thank God I did not meet anyone like you guys did or I would still be in jail. I got scheduled for the next milk run flight and went to the bar and started drinking. Me and another Marine Sgt. hooked up and started putting them down. A little later a boot Lt. came in and wanted to know what the world we were doing and I really told him and was about to take him on. Good thing the Sgt. got in the middle and took him off to the side and explained it would not be a good idea to say anything to me since I had just returned from Nam and missed my flight home. The boot left - me and the Sgt. continued to drink - got on my plane - flew almost around the world and finally made it home. God really watched over me and kept these people away from me. THANK YOU LORD!!! AMEN

Zulu 36 I was there the same time just another part of the woods during the Easter Offensive too....when they were trying to over run everything:flag:

[Deduke]

Something I wrote a few years ago :

Ultimate Endeavor


War is the epitome of every human endeavor. We have experienced the ultimate in love and hate, courage and cowardice, humanity and inhumanity, honor and evil, medical arts and mortician's arts. We have seen hunger and feasting, fear and comfort, patriotism and terrorism. We learned to understand life and death. In our young lives we grew from punk kids to warriors. We knew the terror of being alone on watch in the dark, and we knew the incredible power of buddies who depend on each other.

We understood life while we were in Vietnam. As we slowly became the old salts, we passed on our hard earned knowledge to the boots. We were the possessors of knowledge, of courage, of power, of life itself. We were respected by those from whom we earned respect. Those who earned our respect were all but revered. Those who earned our scorn were lucky to survive.

To us, that village was Home. The people around us were family. Our brothers-in-arms were closer than blood because we had to know how each brother would react in a tight situation. We would rather die than let down our buddies.

When we came back to the world, we found a place we did not recognize. Oh, it looked the same as before, but it was an entirely different place than when we left. The friends we had growing up were gone- gone to their jobs, gone to their families, gone to some different plane. Our families and girlfriends didn't understand. How could they? The WWII vets didn't understand. After all, they fought a real war.

We learned that Vietnam was our Home, even though home was an abhorrent place. We left our buddies when we left our Home, and with them we left everyone who could possibly understand what makes us tick. We learned that Home is on the other side of the world, but that The World really isn't our home. Some of us learned that Home is gone.

[HST]

The first thing I can think of is the shock of it all...one day I was in the bush, humping every day digging in every night, my rear calls, tells me my relief in coming out on the next chopper, my flight date came in.

I went to Dong Ha with a buddy from Lima who was rotating, spend a day or two there, which was worse that the bush because Dong Ha was getting hit all the time and you had to run and find a trench every time there was incoming.

Flew to Da Nang, spent a night in a big building like a hanger, I remember I was freaked because I didn't have my rifle, I had absolutenl nothing but the cloths I was wearing, all my personal stuff, records and gear got destroyed when the gooks hit the ammo dump in Dong Ha. Got on a civilian jet to Oki. Went to I think it was Hanson. Got our seabags that had our uniforms, found they had been ruined, They issued us new uniforms and the ribbons we were supposed to wear but they were out of Cpl's stripes so we had to go as privates.

We stayed there for a few days, got on another civlian jet to the world, stopped at some B52 base in Guam and bought 5 fiths of booze at a duty free store, got sh*tfaced with my buddy and a Gunny from 2/9 that I knew when he was running a platoon.

Went to El Torro got our orders, pay, got issued temp. ID cards by some great guys, I was still a little out of it, one of them helped me figure out what year I needed to be born in to be 21 for the birth date on my ID.

There was busses and cabs at the base, 5 of us bucked up for a cab and went to LAX

The only hassel we had was at LAX when 2 azzhole Marine MP's gave us a hard time, one of them a guy wearing the ND ribbon accused us of impersonating whatever, and threatened to take us in, a Capt who had been on our plane, saw it came over, said he would personally vouch for us, if doubted his word and took us in there was going to be some real bad sh*t and it wasn't going to be us that was in it. They let us go.

The rest was like Billy said, the protest thing hadn't gotten to the midwest yet but people I hung with for years acted like nothing was happening, if they asked where I had been, I told them, they said ok like I just got back from a vacation, they were doing the same things they had been doing when I joined, there was just no connection between us, I hung around with them for a couple of days and then kept to myself. I never did re-connect with them. I just wanted to get out and away from all of the bullsh*t that was going on in this counrty. I met a girl who's father made Normandy and uncle was career Marine, We were married a couple of years after I got out, we hung with mostly vets. My brother, the other Cpl. Simpson , Baker 1/7 Chosin, became very tight. When we moved here we only had 8 neighbors and they were all WWII vets except for one WWI.

I guess you could say that I withdrew, whatever. I think a lot of it was the rapid transition from the war to the world, from sleeping 2 or 3 hours a night in a hole to a bed, tanks ontos, 6x6, dirt highways to I-66, from getting the news on a PRC 25 or from a 2 week old stars and stripes to a tv set and mostly from being "aware' all the time, from being able to hear your call sign when you were sound asleep and respond immediately....the whole thing. I don't now how they handle it today but I hope they do a better job than they did with us. I think a lot of the WWII guys eased back into everyday life because they came back on ships and to took a lot longer... maybe the stuff we post here will help the Marines coming in behind us...who knows.

[HST]

I didn't mention the worst but I might as well get it down. All of the sh*t, the firefights, incoming arty mortors rockets, the booby traps were a b*tch but you could breath and blow them off when it was over. For me it was the medevacs, carrying hit, bleeding, sometimes dying, Marines out to the choppers, I've never forgotten them. Everyone in the grunts saw it but HST's FAC's and Corpsmen saw more of that than anyone. When I got back no one, not the Corps of later the VA, ever said hey lets talk about it. I really hope that has changed.

[exnitro]

We went my military bus from Norton to L.A. I took a train home to Il. to save money. A young boy, 8 or 10, latched onto me. He was going to New York City to catch a plane to England, by himself....

[manilalaguna29]

I loved the way people would insult you but not directly. They would say something derogatory about Vietnam vets knowing you had been one. College was a ***** in California with all the liberal know it all *******s, but I stuck it out. Never told anyone I had served in the Marine Corps. Getting a job was not easy. You had to account for the time, I had the feeling that if I had put down on the application that I had been in prison I would have had more job offers. I'd say it took about 10 years to get over my 29 months in RVN. This was only part of it, what hurt most was ruined relationships with people I really cared about.

[DRB]

You know I consider the Vietnam era "the greatest generation". The World War Two vets had the support of the entire nation. It's easy to do something when you are surrounded by support. This was not the case with the Vietnam veteran. See it takes a special man to stand up for what he believes in when he has the support of very few. This will be the legacy of the Vietnam veterans. They had courage when nobody else did.

[USNAviator]

Thank you all so far for your responses. I posted the reasons why I did this in the OP.

Does it bother you when these political, social, educational groups want to reach out for a group hug and say "Welcome Home?"

[radio relay]

When I left Vietnam in October of '70, I didn't come back to the States. I was reassigned to Okinawa, and spent roughly the last six months of my enlistment, and tour in WESPAC, at Camp Schwab.

Okinawa was still controlled by the United States, but the Okinawans were rioting quite a bit outside Kadena. Trying to force the U.S. to give Okinawa back to Japan. Almost everybody in my unit (H&S Co, 7th Comm Bn) were Vietnam Veterans, short timers, and salty as hell. Discipline was pretty lax, and racial tensions were high. About three months before I was due to get out, I got into a fight in night club in Naha with a black Air Force officer who had been disrespecting the Marine Corps, and I got busted. I was glad when I could finally come home.

When I got back to CONUS, they loaded us onto cattle cars and took us to Pendleton, where I spent three days processing out of the Marine Corps.There was race riot in the barracks on my last night in the Corps. Several Marines were put in the hospital, and several ended up in the brig. I was real glad I was in San Diego celebrating.

==================
I went up to San Francisco, and took a job working as a groom with thoroughbreds at Bay Meadows, with an old friend. I never mentioned that I'd been in Vietnam, or was a Marine. Nobody cared. It was just me and my thoughts. I'd actually experienced a lot more overt rude and insulting behavior from people before I went to Vietnam, in 1969. In 1971, people were tired of it. Didn't care about us Vets, nor so much about the protesters either.

In November of '71 (about six months after I got out) I landed a job working for the Army in Thailand, Maintaining the microwave links between the Air Force bases in Thailand. Spent another two years in S.E.A. This time as a civilian.

=================
It never really hit me, until that day in May of '75, when the embassy in Saigon was being evacuated. I was a student at the University of Colorado. Married and had a 2 yr old daughter. My reaction really surprised me. I remember taking my little daughter for a walk on campus. Sitting under a huge cottonwood tree, tears streaming down my face while she played in the grass. All I could think of were the faces of those young Marines in Vietnam. Some long dead by then. All for nothing, because our country, and our people had turned their backs on us!

"Thank you", and "Welcome home", The Wall, and all the rest of it are nice, and well meaning. If approached, I smile and say something like "it was my pleasure" ... but, I still have a bitter, little hole in my guts. It won't go away. When I'm alone, I can hear the sobs and screams of the wounded and dieing. I still shed tears for them. I will until I die. So much lost and wasted because our country, and our people, thought more of politics than they did of us who fought and died in their name!

[ecfree]

To late for a group hug from a politician or any kind of club.......
when I came home the civilian population of this country ( college KIDS ) mostly sucked,and now some of those nit wits are our senators,mayors or govenors-----...........................
My 2 cents.........
SEMPER FI:iwo:.........................Ed

[03Foxtrot]

I must say that I was one lost soul when I returned to the civilian world in December of '69. It was almost like a bad dream that I know really happened but since I had no support or understanding except for my immediate family, minus my sister who still believes better red then dead and that all wars are wrong, I was all alone. I felt like I was still at war, only without my buddies that I left behind. College was almost impossible and work, except for construction, was not agreeable to me. Relationships never really worked and I made so many mistakes and poor choices that I decided to become a loner. Unfortunately, I did marry several times and with divorce and child support, I remained poor as well as unhappy. For many years I fought internally with the memories of why I had enlisted and what I had done and how nobody seemed to care about the eventual end to the war, win or lose. I fought to win the war and I fought to survive and I needed my nation to acknowledge the sacrifice of those men who died or came back physically and mentally wounded. Only when I attended the dedication of the Wall in Washington D.C. in November of '82 did I begin to admit my personal flaws and realize that I wasn't alone in how I felt. I am now much older and wiser and I am still flawed to a degree that I will never get over and I am beyond healing and I admit that I am bitter, but I continue to fight the good fight and remain loyal to my buddies and my Corps and my country, despite the way I was treated, with reservations of course.
Semper Fi, Scott

[rufus1]

:usmc: I have never attended a single function that they have been doing for the Vietnam vets for the past few years. I feel it is too little too late for me to accept and feel any warmth or fuzzieness. I like a lot of vets feel better in our homes anyway out of the crowds and probably would not have went if they had done it way earlier. There is a lot of great orginazations for us VFW,DAV,Vietnam Vets of America.American Legion etc. etc. ect. but I do not belong to any. I send money to a number of them to help out what they do but never have been able to get myself to join.

[Captain Kirk]

We landed in El Toro. All were in wheelchairs, stretchers or crutches. Hippies outside the whire next to the tarmack hurled fruits and vegitables and called us murders, baby killers. PTSD was not named yet, but the killer instinct was only suppressed by our disability. Last year a stranger came over to me in a resturant and thanked me for my service. That was the first time.

[doc h fmf]

I Dont Know If I Have Any Right Being Here But I Just Want To Say Thank You For A Job Well Done And I Loveyou My Brothers

Semper Fi And Godbless You My Brothers


Stephen Doc Hansen Hm3 Fmf

[advanced]

When I left the Nam, and later got out of the MC and went home I don't remember any negative comments from anyone. The day I got home I took off my uniform and never looked back. <br />
<br />
A few months...

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: I got medivacted Home for Christmas Commander,while pulling into Bethesda Naval Hospital,The FREAKS surrounded the Ambulance I was in,and threw Balloons of Red Dye all over it,when it Hit the Windows and Burst open I flased on Men's Heads exploding All over again.But in a deep sence guess that's what I fought for,The right for these respectful pieces of Chit too do their Free Thing? That was My Welcome Home Parade Sir :iwo:

[ChuckH]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[montana]

i felt more fear on the plain ride home then on the way to Nam...i knew i wasnt the same person that went over...as i said befor was told to keep a low profile becaus we were not well liked when we landed in sunny Cali...they kept the protesters away from us with a high woven wire fence but could still hear them jearing us .... took my uniform off in the reastroom in the airport and changed to civies.....i got home here in Montana about 2 in the morning...sorta like sneeking in....first thing i did and what made my then wife think i was nuts was to fill the bathtub up with cold clean water five times and drain it out....i had told my bros i would do that for them when and if i made it home...i never got a welcome home till i came into this site...hell most around here didnt even know i was in the service...i kept such a good low profile...its hell when you thought you did right..... didnt know i was suffering ptsd all these years ....with every minut of my life still in nam...the nightmares flashbacks....the listening to others telling me it was then not now get over it....tried to deal with it with ol joe bottle....spent lots of time in and out of jail...instead of bloting nam out the whisky put me back there worse.....stoped the booze and the jail thing quit...think most the cops sorta understood...they treated me half way deacent....had no suporte what so ever..till one day i read an atical on ptsd...thought what the hell is this...it just described the last 30 some years of my life...bout that same time my wife was working for soscial servises...and was takeing a cours on how to identify ptsd in children...not to say i was acting like i kids....for the moste part that is....but she was recognising the simtumes in me....after a long talk we desided to check out VA see what could be done to help out
the dreams day and night are still there but i at least know why....also the survivers guilt

[03Foxtrot]

Montana,
Hang in there Bro, you may feel alone, WE may feel alone... but I've still got your back and I know you've got mine. The miles and time separate us, the bond however is intact.

Semper Fi, Scott

[Mongoose]

I was court committed to a Texas state hosp. ( nut ward ) 5 times in the early 70s. I would have episodes where I would be watching things that happen to me unfold before my eyes. I could hear the rounds going off. Hear the screams for mother, God, and Corpsman. I could smell the sulfur and hear the popping noise rounds make when they are near misses. All the while, it was like I was floating in the air and looking down on all this shet. When it was over, I never realized I was screaming also. They would put me in, dope me up for a couple of months. Then let me go. During the fifth trip, I met a woman shrink that put 2 and 2 together. Besides my wife, it was the best thing that ever happened to me in my life. I learned to deal with and endure my mental ghosts. But today I have no regrets for my experience. What I regret is that those whose life kept on being happy and gay wouldnt give me the time of day. Never a thank you, for being able to sit at home in their recliners watching t.v. I regret that they didnt get to spend a week in a grunt unit in Nam in 68. May be things would have been different if they had.

[advanced]

montana and Mongoose, ya'll are making my skin crawl - getting a little vivid there. At the VA we had a 15 man combat vets group with 2 counselors. One day they got to me and I began to talk of the Nam. I had just poured a cup of coffee in a disposable cup and as I'm talking I didn't realize I had been squeezing the cup and all the hot coffee is pouring out onto my hand and onto the floor. Everyone was just looking at me. I was talking of all my lost brothers and when the therapist pointed out the coffee to me I just became overwhelmed with grief and had to leave the session.

At the VA I was told that they might not be able to help me unless I let go of all my anger. WTF, like I'm trying to stay the way I was. And, Montana, that survival guilt. That had me by the nuts for so many years. Why did I keep coming out. My buds in my squad used to tell me that I couldn't die no matter where they put us. At the VA they told me I thought I was immortal and that was not true and I had to realize that I could die. They wouldn't have said that if they had been with me.

I was called a sociopath for not giving a **** about killing all those gooks, and at the same time I couldn't tell anybody about the total despair and grief when my friends, chopped to pieces, would die in my arms. I would cry with them as they died because we would both know.

At times the Doc's and therapists would spar with me trying to convince me that I could just start thinking of other things when I would see all these pictures and hear all those sounds in my mind. They'd say stupid **** like "Just go and get a glass of water when that happens."

I knew/know my problem. I would tell them that if I was any different than the way I was that I would literally be dead. That was then, they would say, you don't have to kill anyone anymore. In many ways, it sure was a simpler time back then. I still have that theme within me, makes change mighty hard. I've paid many high prices being me, but, I'm still here and so many of my brothers are not.

[USNAviator]

This is from Bill Hunt. His response to a letter from a student about Nam. Interesting perspective especially in regards to POW's


I was met at the airport by my Korean War brother, and I remember being
silent and bitter after he made an innocent comment. He noted in jest that I was
now home and no longer "surrounded by the Viet Cong and all that jazz." It was
said in jest, but it sounded as though he was not inclined to believe that the war
in Vietnam was a real war, a war were in fact I felt the whole time that I was
there that I was indeed surrounded by a hostile force.

I got on another plane the next morning to be reunited with my wife and her
family. I'll never forget being re-introduced to my 16-month old daughter, who
treated me as a complete stranger. That was really hard. My wife had no real
concept of where I had been, even though I had written every day. There was a
new stress in our relationship that is hard to describe.

But more toward your theme, my wife's family barely acknowledged that I had
ever been gone. Did they know I had just returned from war? If they did, they
acted as though it didn't matter.

In about a week I checked in with the rest of my family, and I swear it was as if
I had been down the street buying a loaf of bread. They were very casual about
were I had been. I think that my war duty to them was just another military
assignment, another station. If I had been assigned to a post in Germany or in
Korea their reaction to my coming home would have been about the same.
Vietnam was just part of the background of everyday life, and now I was more
available for invites to family gatherings. No one asked me about the war. They
were totally apathetic on the subject.

At the time, this "treatment" didn't matter much. What was, was. My service in
Vietnam was just as normal to me as walking down the street was normal to
others (though I would have been more comfortable wearing my combat gear).

Vietnam Vets came home and tended stayed to themselves; they didn't talk
about the war, and generally they didn't even meet other vets� who were, after
all, staying quiet about their past. I met my first vet friend in 1974, and
experienced the reality that I knew more about him in 5 minutes than I knew the
other strangers around me, ever. After that, I began to seek out other vets
because they understood me and I understood them.

Unlike many, I did continue to bring up the subject of Vietnam routinely at
social gatherings until the early 1980's. Everything reminded me about the war,
especially food. I had lived with the Vietnamese, and I missed the food, believe
it or not. The war was an exciting period in my life, and many many interesting
things happened that under most circumstances people would find interesting,
though there was rarely much social feedback.

Then one day, I mentioned the war at a large lunch affair with various business
clients. I had said something very interesting, I thought, and I was stunned by
the silence that returned. I was so stunned, I stopped mentioning the war for
years.

I wasn't the only vet who stopped mentioning the war. Once, not that long ago,
I was in another business meeting with a group of about six men. Over
sandwiches they started talking about their military experiences. The guys who
shared were not war vets, they had been in the service and were quick to talk
about flying in planes and assignments on ships and various stuff that all ex-GI's
have in common. I didn't say anything, and after all but one of the members had
left the room, I pointed out to the last man seated that he hadn't said anything
either. Turns out he had been a platoon leader in Vietnam and had learned the
same social lesson I had learned. Case closed.

It was 1985 that changed the way I conducted myself. The Today Show
celebrated the 10 year anniversary of the fall of Saigon by broadcasting from
downtown Saigon. Featured was a May Day Parade. I thought that was about
the most insensitive thing I had ever seen. The show was popular with the
American viewers, it got great ratings, and I was appalled.

I wrote my first of many "letters to the editor" after that. I just felt that the
American people needed some small insight from the perspective of a Vietnam
Vet. Dumb stuff was being said every day, and I felt a need to point out dumb
stuff, and add something new.

Newspaper editors loved what I had to say, probably because at the time no one
was mentioning Vietnam at all in any meaningful way. I was called on the
phone more than once by other vets, who wanted to thank me for my "letters",
and that fueled my need to write on. A mover and shaker in Stockton who
wanted to help raise money for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Sacramento
enlisted my help in dealing with the media, and I started to work with other vets
on a major project that has given me life-long friendships.

I learned two important things from my experience with fund raising for the
California Memorial: (1) Only vets and their families cared about contributing
money toward such a thing, and (2) some vets are very intelligence thinkers.
They are very successful in their careers, and they care a lot about honor and
the future.

I also met plenty of vets who are loved by the media. They are not the same
vets. They wore military jungle fatigues and boonie hats and phony metals
and seemed to have a hard time taking a bath on a regular basis. The media
treated them as the only vets: the victim vets. And to this day, there are
media people who think all Vietnam Veterans wear boonie hats 24 hours a day,
take drugs, sleep in the streets, and need help just to shave.

It's important to remember, when discussing how veterans were treated after
the war, that we as a nation lost the war. That was a new experience for
America. I know that I assumed we would win the war, on some level, until I
was half way through my own tour. I was raised to believe that winning wars
was something one took for granted in America.

When your side is the loser, how does one behave? Americans acted as though
they wanted to blame the soldiers, but couldn't. They adopted a comfortable
mindset that somehow Vietnam Veterans were victims of bad government
decisions. The media picked that up, and a whole mythology was created.
Hollywood sold movies built around the theme, and even guys who were never
in the military, but felt like victims, started wearing jungle fatigues just for the
whole natural feel of it.

As a result, our only heroes from the war are ex-POWs; the poster boy victims
of a cruel enemy. National law now requires that we fly the ex-POW flag on
the same staff as the Stars and Stripes. I call it the "poor me" flag. Sometimes I
call it the "black rag".

I believe in honoring ex-POWs, but those who think about it will tell you that it is
not good for anyone to view themselves as a victim. It's unhealthy. And it is
inaccurate in the case of all but a very few. When I think about victims, I think of
several Vietnamese families and soldiers I know who put all their chips on
America and lost big-time.

[HST]

Dan, i don't know that I agree with that a whole lot. I agree that hollywood made brando and sollone and other pyched out azzholes the poster boys for us. Speaking for me, I've never really given a sh*t about what people thought about vets or me, I can talk about Nam or not, it's my life and my business. the POW thing means less than nothing to me, I was a snuff, the gooks didn't take us prisoner, they killed us and we killed them, I guess being a pow was a b*tch but they lived, the snuffs that tried to surrender got tortured and killed.

The thing that bites me about nam is for a lot of people Nam thing has become a way to ride free, nam was the first war that you could get paid if you claim you be "stressed" in past wars there were few because they would refer you to a shrink, now they pay you, I've talked to guys that were getting 3,4 thousand a month, tax free. I've had some of the "service reps" offer to get me in on the goodies, I may be an azzhole to some but I'm a honest azzhole, I work for my money. I'll bet if the VA started putting the so called PSTD damaged warriors in psych hospitals for treatment instead of paying them off, the numbers would fall dramatically.

[03Foxtrot]

We all handle it differently.
There is no one right way to deal with the effects of war on an individual.
Each of us has our own memories and experiences and each of us suffers in our own way.
There are those who had hot chow and steaks and cold beer and movies on a regular basis, and rest assured, their memories and opinions are vastly different from a grunt's point of view.
I never hid from my service and I always responded appropriately to attacks from every quarter and direction, but I also never went looking for confrontation.
Over the years, I learned to usually remain silent and to watch and listen unless I or my buddies were personally attacked.
The perception of the American public went from Viet-Nam veterans being poorly led and used as pawns of the political leaders to one of Viet-Nam veterans being uncontrolled war criminals and either alcohol or drug users, during and after the war. I retreated into my own world of anger and bitterness and like many, I never knew that I was but one of many that had the same flaws, a testament to how many of us managed "to go it alone" in a country that seemed happy to turn it's back on us and would rather look for excuses then confront the reality of the war and the hidden burden we carried.
I don't agree that the only acceptable heros are those captured in combat. POW's rate the admiration and gratitude of America but they are by no means the only heros of this misunderstood war.
Before us came the veterans of the Korean War and I believe they were also mistreated and forgotten by an ungrateful nation. This is what happens when wars become politically motivated and the general public feels disconnected to it.
Semper Fi, Scott

[chulaivet1966]

I've watched this thread evolve and will comment briefly.

When I returned to CONUS after 13 months I was still 19 years old.
I could relate to absolutely no one.
All previous friends, relationships had no meaning or depth because they knew nothing about life, sacrifice, courage or personal loss.
They were all still in their high school mentalities which I was embarrassed to be associated with.....I felt light years ahead of them in many ways.
For ALL those I left behind, so to speak, their life ended at their f'cking sidewalk.
Don't mean so sound judgmental that just my personal feelings.
I have always been a loner and have no desire to join any clubs or organizations.
I don't sport any USMC stuff in public and no one knows I've served until I'm asked or I call BS on something that brought up my service history.

So...those are some my thoughts.

Lastly...there is no Brotherhood like the USMC as we all know what we had to endure to earn the EGA.
I am extremely proud to have served as a Marine and be able to shoot the **** and share some old realities and events with all the Brothers here....for as long as I'm allowed, that is.

[03Foxtrot]

Wayne,
I too am a loner. Like you, I did not fit in anymore and I guess I still don't.
I tried to join a few organizations such as the MCL but shortly after, I felt out of place. I attend and go along with the agenda for awhile and then I just disappear. The Toys for Tots, good as it is, was not my main objective and most of the members did not identify with me or my place in the war. I'm sure I was looked on as not a team player but one of my issues is the anger and hurt that I feel from the distance and ostracism that my country placed on me way back when. I'll be damned if I will put up with it now from anyone. The fact there were few Viet-Nam veterans and those that were had been officers and non-combat roles didn't help. Just like when I ride my bike or attend Harley functions, I arrive and leave alone. I disappear into the crowd and mix and observe and listen and then make my exit quietly. I am close but never intimate, if you know what I mean. As I said before, I am a mixed bag and I know I'm far less then what I should be but I am what I am and I've managed to stay one step ahead of the grim reaper and for that I am usually happy and relieved but sometimes perplexed.
Semper Fi, Scott

[chulaivet1966]

03Foxtrot....
That sums up more on my comments.

I'm known as somewhat gruff on the meaty issues of life/attitudes but I have lived long enough to have some confidence in my opinions without needing validation from anyone thanks to my USMC/Vietnam experiences.
IMO.....the only think I can do is set an example of honesty, honor, self confidence and integrity.
Hell.....I'm not not in the obits this morning so life is good.

Respect...

[USNAviator]

I want to thank everyone who has contributed so far. Your honesty has been incredible. The purpose of this was to open the eyes of those not born while Vietnam was being fought. Hopefully it has been an education

My plan is to ask Sgt. Lep to let this run until Memorial Day and then shut it down. I think that would be very appropriate

Fair winds to you all. And to all of your brothers who will forever be 18,19 or 20, Rest in Peace

[chulaivet1966]

I want to thank everyone who has contributed so far. Your honesty has been incredible. The purpose of this was to open the eyes of those not born while Vietnam was being fought. Hopefully it has been an education

My plan is to ask Sgt. Lep to let this run until Memorial Day and then shut it down. I think that would be very appropriate

Fair winds to you all. And to all of your brothers who will forever be 18,19 or 20, Rest in Peace

Couple of quick comments...

I was reluctant but your request was sincere so I caved.
My reluctance is rooted in the fact I don't like to come off as a whiner or sound like I tooting my own horn.
It was no picnic for my unit but there are many who had it much worse than myself which is another reason.
Lastly.....Vietnam Veterans are unaccustomed to the possibility that anyone (other than ourselves) is remotely interested in our experiences.

I think you got some honest responses and hopefully others will chime in for other perspectives.

[USNAviator]

Couple of quick comments...

I was reluctant but your request was sincere so I caved.
My reluctance is rooted in the fact I don't like to come off as a whiner or sound like I tooting my own horn.
It was no picnic for my unit but there are many who had it much worse than myself which is another reason.
Lastly.....Vietnam Veterans are unaccustomed to the possibility that anyone (other than ourselves) is remotely interested in our experiences.

I think you got some honest responses and hopefully others will chime in for other perspectives.

Wayne, thank you very much. I know this has not been easy and I also knew that those who wanted to share would be brutally honest