Rifle Range Score

[HST]

I'm a saver...I'm sitting here looking at my:

U.S. MARINE CORPS
RIFLE MARKSMANSHIP
AND DATA BOOK
(For US rifle 7.62- MM, M-14)

Date issued 12 Feb. 1966

I fired a 214- Sharpshooter This was in boot camp. When I was with 2/27 & 2/28 after I came back from Nam we could go to the range as much as we wanted to go. After a few months of 2 times a week I was putting in 500 meter slow fire groups that you could could cover with a baseball.

We fired 2,3,500 slow 2, 300 rapid, 10 rounds each.

Whats the qual now with the 16 or whatever it's called these days?

[LandsNGrooves]

http://www.marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%203574.2K.pdf

There are 4 'tables". 1 is the traditional KD range

5 shots sitting kneeling standing in 15 mins and one rapid sitting @ 200
1 rapid standing to prone and 5 slo fire sitting @300
10 shots in 10 mins from the prone @ 500.

Table 2 is a basic "CQB" techniques at 25m with various drills and reloads.

Table 3 is advanced CQB with tactical movement etc etc.

Table 4 is table 3 in low light and/or under darkness with NODS and lazers.

[Zulu 36]

I saw, at least in my platoon, that some of the highest scoring shooters were the folks who had no firearms training or experience in the past, prior to boot camp, so they did not have to unlearn anything, they were taught everything by the PMIs and some of those scores were incredible, one buddy of mine got 237 out of 250, got a free subscription to Leatherneck as high shooter, etc

Remember those who went UNQ?
They were punished even more severely than was normal

I was sooooo happy I wasn't an unq. Those of us who qualified marched back to the barracks and got busy cleaning our M-14s and washing our shooting jackets. The DIs congratulated us and pretty much left us alone to clean. We were even allowed to quietly talk among ourselves. The Unqs had to low-crawl the 500 or 600 yards back. When they finally got there, it was mountain-climbers and bends-and-thrusts for a very long time in the pit.

[Tennessee Top]

Our DI's promised us whomever qualified expert would get to call home. Sounded outstanding to me so I busted my hump and got expert (M-14).

So, when we got to San Onofre (CamPen), the DI's had us carry our footlockers up to the top of Mount MutherFvcker and yell "here home, here home"...just like they promised. The rest of the platoon was sitting in formation at the bottom of the hill drinking water, smoking, and getting a good laugh at our expense. Oh, the memories. That's one promise our DI's didn't have to keep. I wonder if something like that could happen today or if that would be a breach of the oath the DI's take when they pick up their training platoon?

[gkmoz]

Tony, your 214 was out of 250, the max.
The max number is all different now, like mostly everything else in the Corps



Was a Marine who shot a 330 out of a possible 350 last Fridays graduation at P.I. May 6th.

[LandsNGrooves]

That is absolutely beautiful, Top. They were true to their word, if you took them literally. LOL. Great story.

Oh, today? They'd probably be court-martialed for irritating a recruit with malicious intent.

I went thru boot not too long ago in this new, Boot Camp lite edition. 300 pfters were promised a call home. They all got it, plus the guide's dad was a gunny and worked 15 mins from the recruit area on pen. He had to call daddy.

[Zulu 36]

Our DI's promised us whomever qualified expert would get to call home. Sounded outstanding to me so I busted my hump and got expert (M-14).

So, when we got to San Onofre (CamPen), the DI's had us carry our footlockers up to the top of Mount MutherFvcker and yell "here home, here home"...just like they promised. The rest of the platoon was sitting in formation at the bottom of the hill drinking water, smoking, and getting a good laugh at our expense. Oh, the memories. That's one promise our DI's didn't have to keep. I wonder if something like that could happen today or if that would be a breach of the oath the DI's take when they pick up their training platoon?

They were meanies. :D

My DIs were true to their promises. If you aced the written exams, you got a call home (I aced both, got two calls). If you aced the practical exam, you got a call (I got call #3). If you scored over a certain score on the range, you got a call (I think a couple of guys got calls). If you aced the PFT, you got a call (this was the old five-event PFT before the current three event job - I think a couple of guys got calls). I think that was about it. Of course, they were only about five-minute calls max.

I think my parents had to sell one of my siblings to the Gypsies to pay the collect call fees back in those days. :scared:

[03Mike]

Our DI's promised us whomever qualified expert would get to call home. Sounded outstanding to me so I busted my hump and got expert (M-14).

So, when we got to San Onofre (CamPen), the DI's had us carry our footlockers up to the top of Mount MutherFvcker and yell "here home, here home"...just like they promised. The rest of the platoon was sitting in formation at the bottom of the hill drinking water, smoking, and getting a good laugh at our expense. Oh, the memories. That's one promise our DI's didn't have to keep. I wonder if something like that could happen today or if that would be a breach of the oath the DI's take when they pick up their training platoon?

Top - for what it's worth, I was at PI from 88 - 91 as a recruit company commander, and my company chief drill instructor made it know each training cycle, that anyone who went UNQ would have to call home and tell Mommy & Daddy that they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. True to form, after going UNQ twice on qual day, while the rest of the two series marched back to the barracks to clean their rifles, the UNQs all gathered on the 500 yard line and had to yell in unison "CALLING HOME! CALLING HOME!!! I'M A NON-SHOOTING MO-FO (or words to that effect) AND I'M NEVER GOING HOME!" He'd keep them out there for about 30 to 45 minutes shouting and doing IPT. It was a joy to watch - but, being a well trained recruit training officer, I watched from the snapping in sheds some 200 yards away.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Great stuff. Alas, I shot a Pizza Box at PI. 207 or 209 I think. And yes, like HST...I'm a hoarder and still have my data book someplace :)

I ALSO still have the tape with my name on it, platoon number, and recruit number, from the back of my 'chrome dome'.

Top THAT for hoarding!

(And yes I acquired a chrome dome, a real one, and it's on there lol)

[SlingerDun]

Was anybody present when the shooting lines were changed from meters to yards?

[SlingerDun]

Our DI's promised us whomever qualified expert would get to call home. Sounded outstanding to me so I busted my hump and got expert (M-14).

So, when we got to San Onofre (CamPen), the DI's had us carry our footlockers up to the top of Mount MutherFvcker and yell "here home, here home"...just like they promised. The rest of the platoon was sitting in formation at the bottom of the hill drinking water, smoking, and getting a good laugh at our expense. Oh, the memories. That's one promise our DI's didn't have to keep. I wonder if something like that could happen today or if that would be a breach of the oath the DI's take when they pick up their training platoon?That's a fairly long walk along B*tch Ridge to reach the base of Mt. Mutha. Humping a foot locker from the recruit squadbay would have left me with burned up gumby arms long before the summit for sure:scared:

[DLAllred]

i remember Sgt Resh and myself "competing" with head shots at 500 yrds... some fun! good way to hone your skills

[LCPLE3]

I saw, at least in my platoon, that some of the highest scoring shooters were the folks who had no firearms training or experience in the past, prior to boot camp, so they did not have to unlearn anything, they were taught everything by the PMIs and some of those scores were incredible, one buddy of mine got 237 out of 250, got a free subscription to Leatherneck as high shooter, etc

Remember those who went UNQ?
They were punished even more severely than was normal

I know this very well. Went unq in bootcamp and it wasn't pretty!
Reported in at Lejuene and first thing they did was send my ass to the range. Shot expert 225 out of 250 with M16A1. Qualified marksman with the M1911.

[civgrunt05]

I remember that my plt. won the range on average score.

We got back to the squad bay and we were hazed for it. I had a hard time understanding the incentive system in bootcamp.

If we lost an event - we got smoked. If we won an event - we got smoked.

That is very cool that you found your old data book though. I don't know that I was able to keep mine from boot, but I've kept some since. It will be fun to look back at in a few decades.

Also -- what's this about being able to go to the range any time you want?
How did that work -- was there a SNCO on duty at all times and you could just show up on your off time and shoot? Is that how it went?

[HST]

we shot at Edson. If I remember right we were allowed to blouse our boots after we shot for qualification.

My PMI was a l/cpl named Collie, it's a good thing I was a boot, I'll bet he took a lot of sh*t over that name, Lassie was a popular show in those days.

This new deal sounds like a real b*tch. It puts Marines to a lot of differing tests. I know the marines are up to it and I sure hope the revised 16 is equal to the Marines. We went to the 16 when I was about half way through Nam. It was a peice of everjamming, plastic, mattell, sh*t and everybody hated it. I've got a 14 now and I still love firing it, the feel, sound of the action, the smell of the oiled walnut. I just can't hit much at over 200 anymore.

[Tennessee Top]

That's a fairly long walk along B*tch Ridge to reach the base of Mt. Mutha. Humping a foot locker from the recruit squadbay would have left me with burned up gumby arms long before the summit for sure:scared:

No squadbays back in 1972; we lived in quonset huts at the base of Mt Mutha. Not sure where our quonset huts would've been in comparison to where the squadbays are today. Also don't remember B*tch Ridge but it maybe was called something else back in the day.

Also remember when we were there it was mating season for the tarantulas (or, for whatever reason, they were coming down from the mountains). We kept the hatches on the quonset huts open for ventilation so the tarantulas had easy access. Had to make sure we checked our boots before putting them on. They were more active at night so while walking firewatch you could see them crawling around.

Speaking of spiders...one year at CamPen, there was a black widow infestation on the ranges especially in the butts and target shacks. They gave us leather gloves to wear and all the corpsmen carried anti-venom injections. Don't remember anybody getting bitten but besides the normal safety brief by the range OIC, we also got a safety brief from the chief corpsman about black widows (as if you don't have enough to worry about when you're trying to requal).

[RonaldOverby]

Back in 1982 When i qualified in BootCamp i shot a 238 Expert. all while in the FMF i shot Expert everytime, i suck with a 45 always shot marxmen

[RonaldOverby]

What was the max then, Ron, still 250?

yes Dave, out of 250 back then

[RonaldOverby]

Our DI's promised us whomever qualified expert would get to call home. Sounded outstanding to me so I busted my hump and got expert (M-14).

So, when we got to San Onofre (CamPen), the DI's had us carry our footlockers up to the top of Mount MutherFvcker and yell "here home, here home"...just like they promised. The rest of the platoon was sitting in formation at the bottom of the hill drinking water, smoking, and getting a good laugh at our expense. Oh, the memories. That's one promise our DI's didn't have to keep. I wonder if something like that could happen today or if that would be a breach of the oath the DI's take when they pick up their training platoon?


Good lord TOP, i can't imagine having to do that. we had a few wussy's actually crying like babies trying to get up to the top with just their gear on. i would have to say as a squad leader i was pretty damn good and even i cringe at the thought of having to do that. WOW :flag: :thumbup:

[LCPLE3]

It was not always necessarily because of the shooter not trying etc, if something was off or he forgot to do this or that or adjust the sights correctly, whatever----you must have been in a position like that, otherwise you would not have shot expert later on. Just one of those things.


We had a tropical storm hit us on qualification day. Wind gusts over 60 mph. So my dope was way off. Over half the platoon went unq. Try using kentucky windage and missed qualifying by 2 points.

[Tennessee Top]

We had a tropical storm hit us on qualification day. Wind gusts over 60 mph. So my dope was way off. Over half the platoon went unq. Try using kentucky windage and missed qualifying by 2 points.

That's bad! And I thought spiders were tough!! I'd take black widow spiders any day over a darn tropical storm!!!

[Zulu 36]

I'm surprised they made you shoot qual under those circumstances.

When I re-qualed at Pendleton in 1977, we were shooting on the Margarita Range, and on Friday the Santa Ana winds started up, full value too. At the 500-yard line everyone had used max windage dope available (M-16A1) and the range officer was estimating we needed at least ten more clicks than the rifle could do (he actually fired some test shots himself), plus the winds were gusting even higher at times. He refused to make us shoot Kentucky windage.

They had us come back the next Monday morning, first thing, and shoot the 500-yard line. I was happy because the 500-yard line was my favorite and on Monday I shot possible. The Friday before, everyone would have shot impossible.

[charm1110]

I missed expert by 2 points in bootcamp, was shooting pretty good til I got a jam on the 500 and it threw off my rythym. I did get the shot off after clearing and reloading that last round. I did qualify expert in all subsequent rifle quals after that in the fleet. qualified marksman with .45 then sharpshooter with 9 mil. the thing about pistol qual was I'd shoot great until qual day then for some reason just blow it out my rear on qual day!never did quite figure that out.

Semper Fi...:flag:

[Jparadowski]

Fired the range at PI in 2000, scored a 245 with a miss, I did not miss as I hit the spotter 5 times that day and still have that spotter today, was given to me to remember the day. Verified said they could not find my last shot hole on rapid fire. The next year I scored a 246, no misses. I fired expert 10 out of 10 times with the rifle and 10 times pistol. Even fired on an Army course with the pistol expert after I retired and went contracting to Afghanistan. I sure wish the verifies would have found that last shot hole, I know it was there, but finding it was difficult as there was too many holes in the same spot.

[Old Marine]

I'm a saver...I'm sitting here looking at my:

U.S. MARINE CORPS
RIFLE MARKSMANSHIP
AND DATA BOOK
(For US rifle 7.62- MM, M-14)

Date issued 12 Feb. 1966

I fired a 214- Sharpshooter This was in boot camp. When I was with 2/27 & 2/28 after I came back from Nam we could go to the range as much as we wanted to go. After a few months of 2 times a week I was putting in 500 meter slow fire groups that you could could cover with a baseball.

We fired 2,3,500 slow 2, 300 rapid, 10 rounds each.

Whats the qual now with the 16 or whatever it's called these days?

Same as when I attended Boot Camp, except with the M1 Rifle. Didn't see a M14 until 1966 when I became a D.I.
Enjoyed the M14. Didn't get the M1 thumb with it.

[Old Marine]

We humped from San Diego to out where they have put in Hwy 15 across from Miramar Air Station to a place Called Camp Matthews for qualification. Lived in tents, but the weather wasn't that bad. These days when you travel Hwy 15 you can still see some of the butts if you look to the right of the freeway while passing Miramar.

[Melvin Jeffries]

Camp Matthews brings back a lot of memories, living in the tents etc. I was there in latter part of 61, can't remember my score but done outstanding in the prone and the sitting position but I remember when I tried to hit target while in the upright position it dropped me down to marksman, I did qualify but was very disappointed that I didn't do better.

[Melvin Jeffries]

I remember if one of us got caught chewing gum the he had to go to the top of the Mt and bury his gum. Needless to say it didn't take long for us to ditch the gum.

[USMC 2571]

I was temporarily confused, This is a 2011 thread, and someone posted a post in the middle of it rather than begin a new thread, so it was confusing until I saw what happened. No problem. We can just tack on new thoughts to old threads anytime, it happens all the time. But it's confusing at first glance.

[Old Marine]

Only for Air Force Legal Beagle's. LOL

[USMC 2571]

That was good Willie

[Mongoose]

Willie.....you do know Dave saved all his AF uniforms, they came in handy when he became a Grey Hound bus driver. I shot a couple of points under Expert. So the Corps did me a favor and made me a walking gunner. That way if I didn't hit anything with a 25 round burst......it scared the shet out of 'em and they left.

[advanced]

On the rifle range I only shot sharpshooter. But in the Nam, since they always put my targets up so close to me I always shot expert. I always thought that was nice of them.

[Old Marine]

Those Recruits who constantly sprayed the targets on graduation day were assigned as Machine Gunners. There were some Recruits is some platoons who never fired a round on qualification day. There were also some who became another person on qualification day, but never in any of my platoons. A few did have sore trigger fingers though. Made it pretty hard to jerk the trigger.

[Mongoose]

On the rifle range I only shot sharpshooter. But in the Nam, since they always put my targets up so close to me I always shot expert. I always thought that was nice of them.

I know what you mean Russ...they told me I was special, that's why I was a gunner. They told me " Don't worry about killing anyone....just shoot like hell in among them little critters, Tex "

[USMC 2571]

Back when max on the rifle range was 250, I was able to get 225, but a friend of mine who had never fired a rifle in his life previous to PI shot about a 237, high shooter for his platoon. As we all know, the PMIs taught us from the ground up, no experience necessary. They did a great job. Primary Marksmanship Instructors. Do they still call them that nowadays??

[Mongoose]

Willie....you know as well as I, that walking gunners were picked because of their extremely good looks and Greek like bodies. Jealously is getting the best of you, you old fart. Hell, your old enough to be Dave's Daddy. Besides, when you qualified, they were still using Muskets.

[Old Marine]

No Muskets, but lots of Squads Right Drill. Never saw the big Parade Deck until Final Drill. We always drilled on the small deck next to the airport.