Marine OCS, and my situation

[Apex32]

I sent a message to jdfairman since he said he would answer questions about OCS, but I was hoping to get more opinions from more of you about myself and my situation. Thanks in advance!



Jdfairman,

I was hoping you might be able to help me put some things into perspective about OCS after seeing your thread where you answer questions about OCS.

I am a Junior at SUNY Buffalo, my name is Dan and I am 20 years old. I have never settled on a major with much solidity since I have come to college, and have bounced around between four majors. My gpa as a result of inconsistency and taking classes out of order, as well as not liking the classes is not good. It is about a 2.1 overall, I am currently on the Mechanical Engineering path which will not allow me to graduate next year (on time) as it is pretty intensive. I could get a "easy out" psych or business degree and graduate on time next year. I have always been interested in service, namely the Marine Corps and have wanted to be part of PLC or OCS for quite some time now.

Physically, I had a surgery to correct a sternum problem 2.5 years ago which was a bar put in my chest which has recently been removed. As a result, I suffered big losses in my physical fitness. However, I am still in pretty decent shape and am working on improving. I currently can do ~13 pullups, ~70 crunches in 2min, 3mile run ~25min. I know i need quite a bit of work in the physical arena, but i am confident with very hard work and dedication i can achieve a high PFT score. I am 5'10 and change, 155 pounds.

My sisters boyfriend whom I am pretty good friends with was a Recon Marine, and I have a friend that is enlisted Recon currently and about to deploy soon. After thinking hard about myself, and the Marine Corps and OCS specifically, I am convinced I want to do this regardless of what major I end up completing at college. Talking to both of them has only solidified these thoughts.

Do you have any advice for me? I am working hard on my physical fitness, and getting my GPA up. Does it make a huge difference if I have something simple like a Psychology BA as opposed to a better degree when I apply for OCS/PLC? I think I can get my GPA up a to a 2.4/2.5 either way in 1 year. I think I can get to 17+ pullups, 100 crunches(the max from what i read) and a 21 or less 3mile time. If I get to that level for the PFT I am hoping it will help offset my grades a little bit, what do you think?

Thanks in advance if you get this and reply to it, and I apologize for the length of the message.

Dan


I wanted to enlist out of highschool, but I did not end up doing it because my family talked me into pursuing a college degree, and once I learned about OCS I was ok with the order in which I was doing things. I don't remember if I took the ASVAB or not, in highschool I had a ~1240 SAT (out of 1600 not the new grading system).

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate it and hope I didn't do anything wrong with this post.

[USNAviator]

I sent a message to jdfairman since he said he would answer questions about OCS, but I was hoping to get more opinions from more of you about myself and my situation. Thanks in advance!



I wanted to enlist out of highschool, but I did not end up doing it because my family talked me into pursuing a college degree, and once I learned about OCS I was ok with the order in which I was doing things. I don't remember if I took the ASVAB or not, in highschool I had a ~1240 SAT (out of 1600 not the new grading system).

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate it and hope I didn't do anything wrong with this post.

Dan

You've asked some interesting questions but may I ask that you fill in your profile first. Secondly, most of this topic has been covered before, do a search on here for what you need

But I also see some subjective issues which might need attention. To that end I'm sending a PM to someone whom I sure will be able to help

If your thinking of PLC have you at least spoken to someone about it? You're in your final year of eligibility and from what I can recall there are only about 300 slots available. Would not surprise me if they are filled by now

[Apex32]

Dan

You've asked some interesting questions but may I ask that you fill in your profile first. Secondly, most of this topic has been covered before, do a search on here for what you need

But I also see some subjective issues which might need attention. To that end I'm sending a PM to someone whom I sure will be able to help

If your thinking of PLC have you at least spoken to someone about it? You're in your final year of eligibility and from what I can recall there are only about 300 slots available. Would not surprise me if they are filled by now

USNAviator,

First off, thank you for your reply and your help thus far. I did meet with the OSO at my campus where they have an office. Chances are, I won't end up graduating next year and probably won't change majors. I did do some searching, and reading on the forum, but I guess I also wanted to get more individual advice. He wants me to get to 18 pullups/23min or less 3mile/100 crunches before we talk again. He liked me, but said my indecisiveness with picking a major made him think I might not be committed to this, and wants to see some proof I suppose. I am working hard to get to that PFT level. I am doing the Armstrong pullup routine, among other workouts and running often.

Again, thank you for your reply, I appreciate it!

Dan

edit: Filling in my profile now, sorry about that!

[03Mike]

Okay, I’ll do my best to answer your questions and lend a little perspective.

First – does your degree major make much of a difference as far as OCS selection? No, not really. If you’re wanting to fly, then maybe. Some degrees may make you more desirable once you are in, but doesn’t sound to me like you are in that boat.

GPA – yup, you need to raise your GPA. There is a 2.0 minimum required for PLC, and the state of things now, the level of competition for PLC slots, they’re not looking for candidates who meet the minimum standard.

Surgery – the OSO will need to address that.

Physical Fitness – yup, even the OSO said that you need to be in better shape before he’ll even talk to you again. Given what he said about your indecisiveness, I’d encourage you to exceed his PFT guidance before seeing him again – which means knocking down the run time. Should be easier to do as the weather gets better. At this point, it isn’t about getting in better shape, it’s about demonstrating your determination to meet his standards. So, show him you mean business.


Read & Heed – the ENTIRE OCS process is to see if you have the potential to be an Officer of Marines. EVERYTHING is an evaluation – and it sounds like your OSO has already started putting you to the test. Another thing to keep in mind is that at some point you’ll fall short and fail – that’s designed into the system. They are looking to see how you handle failure and adversity. Currently, the Marine Corps has more people applying for OCS than they have slots for. As a result, they’re looking to weed people out – or more correctly, have people weed themselves out. Determination, grit, sweat, guts, heart – it all goes into the selection process – so you have to show them something.


Does that help?

[USNAviator]

USNAviator,

First off, thank you for your reply and your help thus far. I did meet with the OSO at my campus where they have an office. Chances are, I won't end up graduating next year and probably won't change majors. I did do some searching, and reading on the forum, but I guess I also wanted to get more individual advice. He wants me to get to 18 pullups/23min or less 3mile/100 crunches before we talk again. He liked me, but said my indecisiveness with picking a major made him think I might not be committed to this, and wants to see some proof I suppose. I am working hard to get to that PFT level. I am doing the Armstrong pullup routine, among other workouts and running often.

Again, thank you for your reply, I appreciate it!

Dan

edit: Filling in my profile now, sorry about that!

Dan

I'm glad I could at least give you some help.I went through PLC the summer of 1977 lol. So I think you can understand why I'm hesitant to give you any advice as to how things work in 2011. But there are several Marine officers aboard who have more recent experience

But IMO, don't sweat the academics. As long as you're above a 2.0 you are good to go

[Apex32]

Okay, I’ll do my best to answer your questions and lend a little perspective.

First – does your degree major make much of a difference as far as OCS selection? No, not really. If you’re wanting to fly, then maybe. Some degrees may make you more desirable once you are in, but doesn’t sound to me like you are in that boat.

GPA – yup, you need to raise your GPA. There is a 2.0 minimum required for PLC, and the state of things now, the level of competition for PLC slots, they’re not looking for candidates who meet the minimum standard.

Surgery – the OSO will need to address that.

Physical Fitness – yup, even the OSO said that you need to be in better shape before he’ll even talk to you again. Given what he said about your indecisiveness, I’d encourage you to exceed his PFT guidance before seeing him again – which means knocking down the run time. Should be easier to do as the weather gets better. At this point, it isn’t about getting in better shape, it’s about demonstrating your determination to meet his standards. So, show him you mean business.
Read & Heed – the ENTIRE OCS process is to see if you have the potential to be an Officer of Marines. EVERYTHING is an evaluation – and it sounds like your OSO has already started putting you to the test. Another thing to keep in mind is that at some point you’ll fall short and fail – that’s designed into the system. They are looking to see how you handle failure and adversity. Currently, the Marine Corps has more people applying for OCS than they have slots for. As a result, they’re looking to weed people out – or more correctly, have people weed themselves out. Determination, grit, sweat, guts, heart – it all goes into the selection process – so you have to show them something.


Does that help?

Yes, This is basically exactly what I thought, and I'm glad we are on the same page. I agree, it seems as though PLC and OCS are both getting pretty competitive so I think I need to raise my GPA like you said and reach or better yet exceed that PFT benchmark in order to have a good chance at getting a slot. Thank you for your detailed response it was very helpful.


Dan

I'm glad I could at least give you some help.I went through PLC the summer of 1977 lol. So I think you can understand why I'm hesitant to give you any advice as to how things work in 2011. But there are several Marine officers aboard who have more recent experience

But IMO, don't sweat the academics. As long as you're above a 2.0 you are good to go

Thanks for the continued help, I really appreciate it.:thumbup:

Dan

[03Mike]

One quick note so that you are on the same page with the OSO

OCS = Officer Candidate School - it consists primarily of two different officer candidate programs PLC (Platoon Leaders Course which can be a two year program - Jr/Sr - or a combined course - designed for college students) and OCC (Officer Candidates Course - which is designed for college graduates).

[Apex32]

One quick note so that you are on the same page with the OSO

OCS = Officer Candidate School - it consists primarily of two different officer candidate programs PLC (Platoon Leaders Course which can be a two year program - Jr/Sr - or a combined course - designed for college students) and OCC (Officer Candidates Course - which is designed for college graduates).

03Mike,

Right! I accidentally say OCS meaning OCC, sorry about that and thanks for the correction.:thumbup:

Dan

[Grunt4Life0311]

You are making the right choice. I graduated from college last year and then enlisted a couple weeks after graduation. I'm an over educated PFC. I wanted to have a combat deployment as enlisted and get some before I went to OCS. I thought that it would get me more respect. I am not kind of regreting not just going to OCS right off the bat. I'm a 0311 so my MOS sweet and I will definitley get my combat time in. For some reason though I believe to get into OCS you have to have a 3.5 to qualify. I could be wrong though I pretty much shut down the whole officer way after being bugged about it many times as to why I was enlisting instead of going to OCS because I have a high gpa. Whatever you do just don't enlist. Work hard to get your scores up and become an officer. More money and it'll be a little easier. Not trying to take anything from officers lol.

[Geagle05]

I sent a message to jdfairman since he said he would answer questions about OCS, but I was hoping to get more opinions from more of you about myself and my situation. Thanks in advance!



I wanted to enlist out of highschool, but I did not end up doing it because my family talked me into pursuing a college degree, and once I learned about OCS I was ok with the order in which I was doing things. I don't remember if I took the ASVAB or not, in highschool I had a ~1240 SAT (out of 1600 not the new grading system).

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate it and hope I didn't do anything wrong with this post.

Dan, wish you the best of luck. 03Mike explained it pretty well. At least from when I went through OSO process, things are pretty competitive right now. Work on your GPA and PT which are good things to excel at --Marines or not. I had a 3.5 GPA with your exact SAT score at a good school and yes I managed to have a good time as well... you're certainly capable of doing better. PT is a matter of how much you put into it. I believe anybody can be a PT stud if you put legitimate effort into it. Not to repeat 03Mike, but things are pretty competitive right now...put in that effort to make yourself stand out.

Interesting answer from grunt4life... from my little experience, however, I'd respectfully disagree. If you have the desire to enlist and be a Marine there is nothing wrong with that. It won't make you 'harder' or mean you will be a better officer. It's about your leadership. There is nothing wrong with being an "overeducated" Pfc. IMO, with COIN ops, you want Marines at every level to be as smart and mature as possible. Ie. a Pfc can make decisions that will affect the entire war. I have enlisted friends that have their degrees and have met some pretty brilliant Marines that teach us here at TBS. Can't be too educated IMO. I am just getting into platoon ops here at TBS and I've got to say how much of a shock it is to see how much you are really "fighting" your unit and not the enemy. As an officer, we do the planning, give our Marines a task and a purpose, and then ensure that higher's intent is accomplished... rather than shooting the guns. To put it simply, we plan and our Marines will execute the plan. Experienced Marines please correct me if I'm wrong. As an officer, we are leading Marines and doing whatever we can to better our Marines so that they can accomplish the mission effectively. I'd argue that the job is not easy. So far, it's been surprising how much goes into the job especially on the infantry side. More money than a Pfc, yes. Easier than 0311? I'd say no. But both jobs are hard in different ways probably similar to boot and OCS. Either which way you go will be a rewarding decision. I've only been in for a short time. At times, it's not easy, but at the end of the day it's always rewarding.

[Tennessee Top]

Geagle05,

Grunt4Life0311 is only a PFC (overeducated or not). He has limited experience with officers and what they are all about and is unqualified to make such a statement.

I've never been an Officer of Marines but have dealt with them enough to know there is NOTHING easy about what they do. Just the one aspect of leading Marines makes their job one of the toughest out there (that, I have done).

Good luck to you at TBS sir.