Old Corps /New Corps/ what corps?

[tripledog]

I read a lot of posts on here and many refer to the old corps. Never do I

hear a boot referring to his/her duty as in the New Corps. So that I do

not make a mistake in refering to what I served in (yea yea I know the

Marines are the Marines , regarless of when u served and I say BS to that)

When did the Old Corps start and when did you THINK it ended? And

what would you call the "new Corps?"

[Ed Palmer]

Just keep in mind that OLD CORPS was Yesterday and New Corps is tomorrow

Old Corps - New Corps - My Corps

[Mongoose]

I always thought the new Corps started in 75. I thought they started restructuring training at that time.

[0331 2 0369]

I don't think you can nail a date to that honestly. It's all up to the individual. When they served..... how long they served...... changes they saw....... etc....

[lonewolf121]

Old Corps 75-76? 80’s Marines, 90’s Marines, now Marines...Different; but all still the same. I was actually thinking about this very thing yesterday. Look at Vietnam vs. Afghanistan. Different alcohol regs; sure VN Marines may have had COs that banned alcohol; but at least it was existent. Different abilities to get tang; if the need arose, don't even think it's possible over in the Middle East. Different region, different environment, different strategies. Same breed of fighting Marines; just different times. Like kids arguing about who had it worse, the older kid will always insist it was rougher, “Well, you didn’t have it as hard as me, because Mom and Dad used to beat me.” Without ever considering how it was for the younger sibling.

:flag:

[haebyungdae]

I think the stop and start is really dependent on whether you are currently in service right now or not. Marines that are out will have an opinion based on the time frame they were in just like I will equate any time frames to my period of service. To me, the idea of old and new Corps seems to follow the changes in generations in the Marine Corps; especially senior SNCO leadership changing from one generation to the next.

I would say that having joined in 2003, old Corps would encompass those who served during the Gulf War era and are still in service. As for when the old Corps stopped and new Corps began, there are many different opinions about that, but I would considered the old Corps ended less than a decade after the end of the Gulf War. By this I mean that once the immediate supervisors (Cpls and young Sgts) that had no wartime experience started to gain in numbers to those who did.

I would also equate everyone prior to my end date as old Corps, though, I'm sure there would be opinions about old and new Corps among those that served in the various wars that the US has fought and the respective times of peace.

Old Corps or new Corps we all are Marines, but among us all there are those Marines, those older guys that have been around the block many times. The guys that are well respected for their dedication to the Corps and for technical expertise, the guys that take no guff from nobody without consequence. That is old Corps to me, those highly respected E-8s and E-9s (probably some E-7s in there too).

That's my two cents.

[hbharrison]

I guess I missed the change some where to me it has always been the Marine Corps and the only diff was that there were a lot of young Marines now doing what I did before just with new equipment and some new orders. So to me there is no new or old Marine Corps.

[DrZ]

I believe the old Corps was anytime before you served and the new Corps is anytime after you served. My older brother, who went EAS one year after I entered, kept telling me how different I had it from him. LOL... seemed like a lot of BS.

To me...the Corps is the Corps. Training has been modified and improved. Marines are still Marines.

Enough said.

[June 1975]

There has always been old Corps / new Corps. If you get a chance to meet a WW2 Marine or read some of their memoirs, you hear the veteran Marine of their day refered to as "old breed". I am sure that Marines today think of VN Marines as the old Marines, and the VN vets think of the WW2 men that way. I am a Marine that is old, but I don't think that I was in the "old Marines"!
;)

[Old Marine]

So, does pulling mess duty at the last supper qualify for old Corps?

[03Mike]

When did the Old Corps start...

As others have said, the Old Corps started in '75... that'd be 1775, by the way.

Obviously there are many, many different opinions. From a historical viewpoint, I've found probably the clearest delinieation of "Old Corps" and "New Corps" to be December 1941. Those on duty with the Corps prior to Pearl Harbor differentiated themselves from the slew of new recruits that came in after Pearl Harbor -- and I think that there is some legitimacy to that. The Marine Corps changed significantly between 1940 and 1945.

I think that the Marine of 2011 bears much more in common with the Marine of 1961 than the Marine of 1961 does with the Marine of 1911.

What was it Puller said? "Old Breed, New Breed? Doesn't matter so long as it's the Marine Breed!"

[Wrench3516]

:evilgrin: "OooRahh!"
The Old Corps!

Now I know how it all started!

Scene: Tun Tavern, Philadelphia . Date: 1775. Time: evening.

Capt. Robert Mullan was sitting at a candle-lit table with a feather pen and an open ledger
before him. He was recruiting the world's first U S Marine Detachment.

The first potential recruit, whose name has been lost in antiquity, walked up and said,

"What's the deal?"

Mullan said, "Just sign this book, and I'll give you $5, which is your first months pay,

a bottle of whiskey and you're in. Of course you have to have your own musket.

The recruit thought for just a second and said,

"OK. I have a musket", signed, became the Corps very first Marine recruit, took

his $5 and bottle into the back room to wait.

Second potential recruit walked up and asked, "What's the deal?"

Mullan said, "Just sign this book, and I'll give you $5, which is your first months pay,

a bottle of whiskey and you're in. Of course you have to have your own musket."

Looking sad, the second recruit said, "I'd really like to be a Marine, Sir, but I don't own a musket."

To which Mullan replied: "Don't worry about it, son, we'll cumshaw one for you."
(. . ...which meant he was going to steal one from the Army.)

So he signed, became the the second Marine, and walked to the back room with his $5 and bottle of whiskey.

The first Marine looked the second Marine over and, by and by, asked, "So what was your deal?"

The second Marine replied "Well, I got $5, a bottle of whiskey and a musket."

The first Marine thought on it for a while and finally said:

"Yeah. That figures, but you know, back in the Old Corps, you had to bring your own musket."

Fideli Certa Merces




A Marine should be sworn to the patient endurance of hardships, like the ancient knights;
and it is not the least of these necessary hardships to have to serve with sailors.



:thumbup:

[Carpshooter]

I use to think it was when there was no cross rifles on the NCO chevrons . I now think that the " old Corps " ended with those who had the Marine numbers , of which my DIs forced me to remember mine in boot camp . back in '69 , before using social security numbers !
:flag:
I can still remember mine as I will need them , when I die in order to report in and join my brothers in " heaven " while reporting in to guard the streets there , as " God will only trust Marines " ! :iwo:

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: With all Due respect My 2 cent's worth is when they stop letting Drill Instructors knock the Chit outta Chitbirds & letting QUEERS openly serve was The Day The Old Corps became New Corps!!!:beer: :iwo:

[Danno77]

The real answer to this question (and you can read up on this in history books) is: The old Corps was prior to WWII. The new Corps was WWII and after. They didn't even have a single Marine Division prior to the 2nd World War, 1st MAR DIV wasn't activated until Feb 1941(eve of WWII).
WWI- approximately 70,000 men,
Prior to WWII- approximately 13,000
Max manpower during WWII-approximately 485,000
Korean War- approximately-261,000- a lot of Reservist.
Vietnam- I believe it was just over 300,000
When I was in (1977-1981) approximately 180,00
Today- approximately 203,00.

I guess an argument can be made for the spike that occurred during World War I, but you can see by the numbers that the spike during World War II of 450,000 new Marines is dividing point between the old Corps (13,000) and the new Corps (485,000).
* Most of these numbers are taken from Wikipedia and Global security.

[Danno77]

But my answer of course is
Old Corps-during my tour of duty
New Corps-day after I got out
***********---ROFL-----*************

Semper Fi everyone.

[Danno77]

One last reply on this topic in regards to the changes taking place during the 70s
cut and pasted from Wikipedia article.
"
While recovering from Vietnam, the Corps hit a detrimental low point in its service history caused by courts-martial (http://www.leatherneck.com/wiki/Court-martial) and Non-Judicial Punishments related partially to increased Unauthorized Absences and Desertions (http://www.leatherneck.com/wiki/Desertion) during the war. Overhauling of the Corps began in the late 1970s, discharging the most delinquent, and once quality of new recruits improved, the Corps focused on reforming the NCO Corps, a vital functioning part of its forces.<SUP id=cite_ref-Warren_11-3 class=reference>[12] (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/#cite_note-Warren-11)"</SUP>

[USNAviator]

Old and New------That's just about it, whoever was in before you is Old, and you are New, then the guys way after you are New, and you are old.

I wonder what the USMC strength was in 1965, if anyone knows. I thought it was 190,000 or so, not sure

Dave in August of '65 it stood at 223,100

[USNAviator]

Muchas Gracias, Mi Comandante

More than welcome senor. Just happen to have that number at the tip of my fingers. There was a 30,000 troop build up from Jan to Aug. Then of course as we all know it really starting building

[USNAviator]

Muchas Gracias, Mi Comandante

Can we go back two years, my final question, what was it in 1963 when I joined up?

Dave estimated at 185,000 to 190,000 give or take. No hard facts, sorry

[USNAviator]

No problem. Largest the Corps ever was 475,000 during WW2. 309,000 in 1969. Lowest in recent times 171,000, 1997.

[Danno77]

Dave
I probably should said "Where the term "Old/New Corps" more than likely came from", rather than the real answer (but it probably is the real answer). WWII in the Pacific really made the Marine Corps what it is today. As I said also the WWI spike is another point, and I didn't really research it before that.
Personally I feel that Marines are Marines period.

[tracs1833]

Well, I enlisted in Jan, 1969, and for me Old Corps was the WWII/Korean War Vets or earlier. But, it is all judged by perspective. I venture to say that 30 years from now, the guys currently serving will be looked at as Old Corps.
The best definition of Old Corps I ever heard was, "Old Corps is the guy that joined just before you did".

[Danno77]

Dave
Marines who were in a month before me used to tell me I was in the new Corps and tell me how tough the old Corps was. I couldn't believe it.
But those numbers I posted are startling, an increase of the Marine Corps from 13,000 to 475,000 (using Cmdr Dan's source)
0 Mar Div to 6 Mar Div
0 Air Wings to 6 Air Wings
just incredible. You would really understand why they would call it the Old/New Corps.
Great chatting with you
Semper Fi

[yanacek]

0 Air Wings to 6 Air Wings

Actually, the greatest number of Air Wings was five: 1st; 2nd; 3rd; 4th, and; 9th.

[sgtjimh]

Unless your 782 gear consists of a sword and shield, you are new Corps

[Old Marine]

My old bones tell me every day that I am Old Corps.

[Danno77]

Stand corrected on the Airwing number, didn't really research that as much as I should of, and I was an Airwinger, LOL

[Otter5]

The service number is still in my brain today , as it was screamed at me the day it was given me; SSN I look in my billfold to remember

[silverdollar]

I think of the old Corps as WW2 Marines.

[Carpshooter]

The service number is still in my brain today , as it was screamed at me the day it was given me; SSN I look in my billfold to remember

I'm the same way , as my beloved DIs hammer that through my head and I can still say those numbers , as I('ll need them to report in when I die here , they will be the last things going through my mind ! :iwo:

[FaDeD]

You can see a difference every year your in the Corps, You get a boot drop at your shop and it seems every year since the time you came in the get nastier and more hanus*spelling. I think its all just a mindset as your mind matures over the years in the Corps.. and the fact they Marines age like dogs, every 1 year in the Corps takes 7 off the end.. it just happens.

Semper Fi

[FaDeD]

Exactly, the fact that im a Squad Leader and I have been for quite some time, gets me excempt from duties like cleaning and doing drills with crew served weapons ect.. eventually it gets in your head like ya im ****ing salty and them the Sgt Major Comes around and starts talking about how he came in in 1977 and your like holy **** im a boot. But i will tell you nothing makes you feel better then putting a pfc/lcpl on blast his first week in the fleet, something satisfying about it. If yo can get a boot to cry the first day then the rest of his career he will remember you and the errors of his way.. instil discipline through fear.. just saying lol

[HST]

In the old Corps, the grunts anyway, getting drunk or laid or both and showing up late or getting arrested for fighting was a pretty good excuse, it didn't get you off but it usually didn't get on your record. In the old Corps stealing gear, equipment or booze from another outfit or branch was only a problem if you got caught and the good CO's told you so.

[Old Marine]

The bottom line is that there will always be some Marine in the Corps who can call you a boot.

[Mongoose]

In the old Corps, the grunts anyway, getting drunk or laid or both and showing up late or getting arrested for fighting was a pretty good excuse, it didn't get you off but it usually didn't get on your record. In the old Corps stealing gear, equipment or booze from another outfit or branch was only a problem if you got caught and the good CO's told you so.
Tony is 100% correct. My unit and Marines I know from other grunt units. All tell the same story. It was almost expected of you.

[michagnu]

If you actually wore the leather neck collar you might be Old Corps.
If you served before 'The Halls of Montezuma" was added to the list you might be Old Corps.
If you had a cover with a quatrefoil on it that served a function other than decoration you might be Old Corps.
If you used a sword in combat you are Old Corps I don't care if it was yesterday.

[advanced]

So, are those of us that were Nam Marines back in the 60's old or new Corps?

[HST]

Old, we still had a lot of mustang officers and nco's that didn't believe that the book was always right and you didn't have to be lilly white, pure of heart and fully educated to enlist or reenlist

[advanced]

Old, we still had a lot of mustang officers and nco's that didn't believe that the book was always right and you didn't have to be lilly white, pure of heart and fully educated to enlist or reenlist

You've got that right Tony. Now, that's the Marine Corps I was in.

[Carpshooter]

So, are those of us that were Nam Marines back in the 60's old or new Corps?

Look in the mirror , and then decide as that guy I see maybe think he's still young inside , but the weather has taken it's toll on the outside ! :mad:

We were young Marines in Nam ! :iwo:

[Mongoose]

Compared to 2011 Marines, Russ, 1960s guys like you and me and HST and others, Mongoose---we're all Old Corps.

But when we were in, we were boots, pure and simple-----we did not become Old Corps til 20 or 30 or 40 years went by........

When you and I were in, the guys with the real low serial numbers, 19xxxxx, etc, were the Old Corps, the Gunny's and MSgts who were already there when we went in.

So it's all relative------Maybe there is an Old and New Corps, but to most of us it is just as simple as a lot on here have said.

When you went in, you were a boot.
When you got out, and years went by, of course you had been in the Old Corps.

It's all according to how many years roll by between eras, is all
Dave, your talking about a mind-set. Your always a boot to the ones before you. And always those after you, are a boot. But what Tony , Russ, and I are talking about, is a definite change in training, attitude, and priorities. Including the pay.

[HST]

Old Corps: Fox 2/27 We were at Pulgas, living in quansets, no indoor plumbing, 3 of of us were walking to the showers buck azzed naked except for shower shoes. the gunny walks out to the office door and yells at us to get covers on our heads. We asked him which heads. He started laughing and told us to get the f*ck to the showers and the next time get a cover for both heads The CO was just inside laughing just as hard. Today someone would want to court marshall us, the gunny and the CO.

[GunRock0811]

Haha, that definitely wouldn't fly in Pulgas anymore. That's hilarious though.

[tripledog]

In the old corps, DIs carried swagger sticks and would beat you to half dead. In the new corps, they kissed your butt to finish boot.

Somewhere in between is the dividing line.

In the old corps, they kicked your azz if you didnt score well at the range, in the new corps, they send you to school.

In the old corps , you respected your next and upward rank, in the new corps, that holds no water.

In the old corps we always had the ten percenters, in the new corps they still have the ten percenters.

[06yz125]

I'm thinking in the old corps..the DI could beat your ass anywhere.

new corp...the DI had to be careful where he beat your ass.

[Otter5]

Old Corps New Corps ,Who knows whats what? As long as the New Corps uphold the honor of Old Corps We`re all MARINES. Nuf said

[Tegan]

I am going to go ahead and quote a passage from page 130 of Robert Leckie's Helmet For My Pillow, which I know you will all like...

"So the battle raged, so it ended, as it always does, unresolved. The Marine Corps is a fermenter; it is divided into two distinct camps- the Old Salts and the Boots- who are forever warring: the Old Salt defending his past and his traditions against the furious assault of the Boot who is striving to exalt the Present at the expense of the Past, seeking to deflate the aplomb of the Old Salt by collapsing this puffed-up Past upon which it reposes. But the Boot will forever feel inferior to the Old Salt; he must always attack, for he has not the confidence of defense. The moment he ceases to slash at Tradition with the bright saber of present deeds, the instant he restrains that impetuous sword hand, trusting instead to the calm eye of appraisal-upon that change he passes over to the ranks of the Old Salts and ceases to be a Boot forever. Youth rebels and age conserves; between them, they advance. The Marines will cease to win battles the moment either camp achieves clear-cut ascendancy."

[249gunner]

To be perfectly honest, I like to think of the Old Corps as a wartime Marine Corps and the changes that occur when we hit peacetime as a New Corps mindset.

People that sign papers knowing war is on the other side are different from those that sign them during peace time. I can also tell you that alot of us vets will simply leave when peace time comes around again.

But to go as far as to say that the Old Corps was 1910s to 1930s or something is just plain dumb. Just because they took field trips to Caribbean police actions and slept with the rifles in their barracks doesnt mean theyre the same Marines that fought in Al Anbar or Helmand.
The hurdles we crossed arent anywhere the same.

Those Marines also had the option of signing up for as little as 2-3 yrs, never swam swim quals with packs, flak jackets and kevlars, no CFTs, no MCIs, no BSTs...

Another thing I dont understand is why as knowledgeable as the old Marines are that they still dont know the truth about bootcamp stress cards or why it even matters. I have yet to hear a grunt brag about a time of their lives when they were guaranteed 3 meals a day, AC, a dry bed at night right after a mandatory shower.

Having said all of that, I still study more pre WW2 USM history than the chapters written by my own generation. In the same sense a WW1 Marine mightve been more fascinated by Continental Marines of the 1770s.

[sempidr]

Old Corps. is when you got paid in $2.00 bills.


Sempidr

[HST]

To be perfectly honest, I like to think of the Old Corps as a wartime Marine Corps and the changes that occur when we hit peacetime as a New Corps mindset.

People that sign papers knowing war is on the other side are different from those that sign them during peace time. I can also tell you that alot of us vets will simply leave when peace time comes around again.

But to go as far as to say that the Old Corps was 1910s to 1930s or something is just plain dumb. Just because they took field trips to Caribbean police actions and slept with the rifles in their barracks doesnt mean theyre the same Marines that fought in Al Anbar or Helmand.
The hurdles we crossed arent anywhere the same.

Those Marines also had the option of signing up for as little as 2-3 yrs, never swam swim quals with packs, flak jackets and kevlars, no CFTs, no MCIs, no BSTs...

Another thing I dont understand is why as knowledgeable as the old Marines are that they still dont know the truth about bootcamp stress cards or why it even matters. I have yet to hear a grunt brag about a time of their lives when they were guaranteed 3 meals a day, AC, a dry bed at night right after a mandatory shower.

Having said all of that, I still study more pre WW2 USM history than the chapters written by my own generation. In the same sense a WW1 Marine mightve been more fascinated by Continental Marines of the 1770s.

I think you're right on the idea that the War and peace time Marines very different.

I think the Marines of today are far better trained and equiped. The Corps is spending the time to make sure they have excellent training and equipment before they send them out.

Korea and Nam involved getting people in the field in big numbers in a big hurry. The Corps offered short enlistments and cut training including bootcamp, some Marine reservists that went to Korea didn't go to bootcamp. In Nam, they gave you the touch physical and off you went, we even took draftees. Shortened bootcamp, ITR, MOS, 20 day leave, staging, on the plane, Da Nang, an outfit, the bush. I became an HST radio operator and didn't know where the battery went, muuch less how to call air missions. The lack of training and equipment cost us a lot more lives but we fought and died like Marines and we kicked a lot of azz in the doing

Other that that what's the deal with rifles in the barracks? Every barracks had a rifle rack and every Marine had a his rifle locked up with his lock.

And, I'll bite, what is a bootcamp stress card and why is it important? Bootcamp is just a couple of months of bullsh*t and then it's over, it's supposed to be stressful. Do they give out firefight stress cards? It's all the same, when it's over it's over,you remember the important stuff and forget about the bullsh*t.

[LandsNGrooves]

I am going to go ahead and quote a passage from page 130 of Robert Leckie's Helmet For My Pillow, which I know you will all like...

"So the battle raged, so it ended, as it always does, unresolved. The Marine Corps is a fermenter; it is divided into two distinct camps- the Old Salts and the Boots- who are forever warring: the Old Salt defending his past and his traditions against the furious assault of the Boot who is striving to exalt the Present at the expense of the Past, seeking to deflate the aplomb of the Old Salt by collapsing this puffed-up Past upon which it reposes. But the Boot will forever feel inferior to the Old Salt; he must always attack, for he has not the confidence of defense. The moment he ceases to slash at Tradition with the bright saber of present deeds, the instant he restrains that impetuous sword hand, trusting instead to the calm eye of appraisal-upon that change he passes over to the ranks of the Old Salts and ceases to be a Boot forever. Youth rebels and age conserves; between them, they advance. The Marines will cease to win battles the moment either camp achieves clear-cut ascendancy."


That was rad

[sparkie]

How did I not get on this thread? Turnin 60 soon, I am old Corps. Not even to shine a light on those Marines who came before. The old Corps wore leggins, and fired a single shot just prior to pullin a cutlass. I am old Corps 'cause I drew my pay in cash, spit shined my ass off, and climbed a rope with no knots. I went aboard and saluted the National Ensign. I tangeled my knees in a cargo net. I am old Corps.

Those kids I respect who took my place will be Old Corps soon enough.

You Will Not Take My "Old Corps" away from me, for we of my years have all earned it.

All Marines Earn It.

[pocatellodave]

I think the Old Corps was back in the Rocks and Shoal days.No crossed rifles just stripes.I have seen and heard a lot of differences in the cadence calling and marching.Old or New they are still Marines!
Semper Fi

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: Anyone remember The SWOOP CIRCLE??? Use too Load up My GTO,everyone would Chip in for Gas,Weather it was 5$ Or Whatev,for a Round Trip!!!Then I'd even have a Pre designated spot for Hauling their Azzez back would even wait a Coulpe Hours late for those Marines Dragging Their Dick's.Semper Fi Go Easy :beer: :iwo:

[sparkie]

Yea, Jack. I did swoop circle at Le Jeune. And Pendleton.

[jamielang1951]

That's the first time in a long time I've heard swoop circle. I posted on the swoop circle board at Lejeune and found Mike Coffee, a Marine from my home town. I remember gas being around 35 cents and catching a gas war along I-65, 20 cents a gallon! That will make you miss the old days for damn sure. Sure don't miss Jville though. I remember the hunting and fishing being excellent. Fed my family many a meal of venison.

[Sgt Jim]

Did you have an out of bounds pass ? I didn,t.made a swoop to Louisville Ky almost every time the eagle took a crap.

[Mxzero]

And, I'll bite, what is a bootcamp stress card and why is it important? Bootcamp is just a couple of months of bullsh*t and then it's over, it's supposed to be stressful. Do they give out firefight stress cards? It's all the same, when it's over it's over,you remember the important stuff and forget about the bullsh*t.
The actual "stress card" was something the Navy gave out at boot camp that didn't actually make anyone back up and give you room to de stress, it just had some resources you could contact if you were feeling suicidal or something like that, which was just a trial and they don't do anymore. The myth of it is that if a recruit in *insert branch here*'s boot camp was feeling stressed out to a point they couldn't take it anymore, they showed the card to the DI and they had to leave you alone for a certain time, usually 15 minutes when the story is said. It probably came out about because some smartass showed it to his DI as a cop out, either because he completely forgot what it was for or he was just joking around. It generally comes up because people that were in before heard the story in passing and use it as a "see how weak the new *branch* is. There was NOTHING like that when I was in."


In the old corps, DIs carried swagger sticks and would beat you to half dead. In the new corps, they kissed your butt to finish boot.
No, not in the least.


In the old corps, they kicked your azz if you didnt score well at the range, in the new corps, they send you to school.
If you really are gonna try to tell me that they do little but coddle you when you fail something, you may want to get checked for insanity.


In the old corps , you respected your next and upward rank, in the new corps, that holds no water.
It actually does, believe it or not. Strangely enough, people on the internet don't necessarily act like they do in real life.



In the old corps we always had the ten percenters, in the new corps they still have the ten percenters.
...Eh, not really much to argue about here.




As stated, the date for "old corps/new corps" stuff doesn't really exist. Different time, different mission, different gear. Yeah, someone around Vietnam time may have gotten beat more openly then someone today (and don't go trying to tell me it never happens), but I'm considered better educated, better equipped, carrying more, going longer distances and fighting in an (arguably) harsher environment. We do fight a similar enemy, not too much to say about that.

[Mxzero]

It's not so much the whole making our service less then someone's service since they were older, it's generally the (perceived at least) mentality that, to us, the older generations have of "oh, you're just new corps. I had it so much harder then you, they just coddle you and hold your hand for you through everything" combined with the fact that it's pretty hard to convey tone on the internet and it cause some resentment. Day to day, it doesn't really come up. The most it does is if we're talking about history and it comes up and even then usually the farthest we go back is the beginning of OEF and OIF.

[Mxzero]

I loved reading the accounts of my great uncle who was in the German Army during WWII. He was in before the war started and wrote in his diary about how all the new joins under his command (he was the equivalent of a Sgt.), pretty much all of them joining after Hitler took power, were weak, didn't know how to fight and he didn't think they'd make it. Didn't make much sense when I read it at 15, but now being in for three years and seeing and doing it myself with those that just get to my unit, it definitely puts the fact that the arguments or "new vs. old" are pretty universal.

[Mxzero]

Just having deployed literally puts me higher then everyone but one guy in my platoon in terms of experience, that is nice. And the only reason the one guy would be higher is because he deployed for a year and me seven months.

[tripledog]

mxzero, I spent 3 weeks at san diego in 2006 , doing nothing but watching recruits every day 6-7 hours a day.

It is like a boy scout camp, as compared to when I went thru the same thing there in 59/60.

You may dream about it all you want, but they coddle the recruits today. If a recruit cannot shoot, they instruct them . One kid was from nyc that I watched and he couldnt spell rifle, let alone fire one, so they sent him to school for 5 days.

I actually saw very little respect from pfcs to sgts while I was there, always just the opposite. Rank did not seem to matter much to them , other than the pay differences, which was a popular subject over those 3 weeks.

[TheReservist]

That boy scout camp has made Marines that have fought in 2+ simultaneous wars and kicked ass at them all.

Also, I'm close to calling shenanigans on the whole post because it's very rare for someone east of the Mississippi to go to San Diego. Also, what school would they send a recruit too vice dropping / recycling that recruit?

[Mxzero]

If anything, and I find it hard to believe they switched it so suddenly in the two years difference between 06 and when I went, they have them shoot again during the next week. Never heard of any school or whatnot and seeing as I work with enough Marines that have coached recruits, and during 2006, and I've never heard anything other then just having them shoot again the next week I find it a bit difficult to believe. And seriously, it's boot camp. Who really cares? Not like it really means all that much in the end anyway, oh no, yours' was harder.

Reservist, only thing I can think of is if he was legacy or they did like one group where they couldn't fit them at PI and sent them over to SD to even out the spaces.

[HST]

If you had to open up your food with a John Wayne and you got 5 smokes, matches, azzwipe and chicklets with every meal, you're Old Corps.

If you open a ziplick bag to eat you're a boot.

[Mongoose]

If you had to open up your food with a John Wayne and you got 5 smokes, matches, azzwipe and chicklets with every meal, you're Old Corps.

If you open a ziplick bag to eat you're a boot.
Tony, don't forget those 5 smokes was all non-filter.

[advanced]

If you had to open up your food with a John Wayne and you got 5 smokes, matches, azzwipe and chicklets with every meal, you're Old Corps.

If you open a ziplick bag to eat you're a boot.

I wish I had the C's ya'll had Tony, we only had 4 smokes in ours. And the MC in I Corps was like fighting 2 wars at the same time. The war on the DMZ from what I understand was much different from the war I fought in down in the Arizona and at Hue. We also had 2 Marine Divisions, always understaffed and in need of new replacements all the time because of the extreme casualties.

Also the terrain was much more difficult from that of today. We had mountains that just shot up out of the ground, rivers, bamboo forests, jungle, rice paddies, booby traps everywhere and ambushes all the time. Not to mention the heat of 115 with high humidity in the summer, snakes, bugs, leaches, and agent orange to later deal with. Not to mention vd if you weren't careful.

We also had an enemy, the NVA, that would rather stand their ground and fight to the death and not run. Being out in the field for 3, 4, 6 weeks at a time with only what you could carry on your back. I remember literally starving all the time and drinking trash water with who knows what in it. We used to filter the **** with our teeth. I handled all that, what I still have a problem with/is the loss of all of my friends. To me they weren't just "casualties." I toast to them every evening - I will never forget them!

They say the Marines of today are better equipped then we were. Of course I can't imagine that since I carried my 16, 2-3 bandoleers, sometimes a blooper, 2 k-bars and some frags and we could call in air strikes that were right on with that napalm. Awesome ****!

One of the great things I learned at PI was to never quit, to quit is to die. Those lessons have always stayed with me and they are valid. Of course my time was a different era of MC History. I am very proud of our current Marines as well, just remember who you learned from.

[HST]

Was it 4 smokes, all non filter? It's been a few years. I remember Lickies, camels, pall mall, chesterfield maybe. I remember when you opened a case of C's there were a handfull of john waynes inside.

I still remember the sundrey packs, what a half a waste, cartons of smokes and some juice, hershey bars or maybe in was m&m's and a big can of coffee that no one could use. we tried putting it in a skivvy shirt and cooking it in a canteen cup, it tasted like a dirty skivvy shirt with sh*tty water added, but the shirt looked neat.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: Back in tha WORLD,after Hell in a very little place(AKA Tha NAM),I can remember falling out EVERY MORNING and Running in 'UTES and BOOT's with our HELMETS and RIFLE's!!!None of this Tennis Shoe Candy Azz BullChit :beer: :iwo:

[Sgt Jim]

I know why they called those four cigarettes coffin nails,you could peg your shelter half down or smoke them.

[advanced]

Was it 4 smokes, all non filter? It's been a few years. I remember Lickies, camels, pall mall, chesterfield maybe. I remember when you opened a case of C's there were a handfull of john waynes inside.

I still remember the sundrey packs, what a half a waste, cartons of smokes and some juice, hershey bars or maybe in was m&m's and a big can of coffee that no one could use. we tried putting it in a skivvy shirt and cooking it in a canteen cup, it tasted like a dirty skivvy shirt with sh*tty water added, but the shirt looked neat.

Yeah, ya'll created the original tea/coffee dyed t-shirts. Yes, it was 4 to a pack, but I do remember some filtered smokes, can't remember which ones. Of course we could buy a carton of Marlboro Red's for $1.50 back then. I do know for a fact that there was only one pound cake to a case of C's, and everybody wanted it.

Eating those C's all those months (boned chicken) sure took the weight off us. We were the lean, mean green killin machine. S/F

[Old Marine]

A pack of Wings(Cigs) was good trading material. Usually got me a can of Beans & Weenies.

[Mxzero]

And another thing that's never changed: cigarettes are an awesome currency. Though out in Afghanistan it's usually Pine Lights (Korean), L&Ms (Pakistani) or Seven Stars (Japanese). It's just what the locals smoke so it's what we smoke.

[Mongoose]

The things we had to make do with and and the living conditions we were stuck with, are a world apart from today's wars. I know this. Marine grunts in Nam, never knew a moment of peace. We could never say, I won't get killed today. I always felt like if I didn't get killed. I would just nasty away in that hell hole.

[advanced]

The things we had to make do with and and the living conditions we were stuck with, are a world apart from today's wars. I know this. Marine grunts in Nam, never knew a moment of peace. We could never say, I won't get killed today. I always felt like if I didn't get killed. I would just nasty away in that hell hole.

You got that right Billy. We just gave it up, we just accepted that there was no way we were going to get out of there without getting all fvcked up and/or dead. Of course some of us did, we did, but I'd a given better odds on winning the lottery back then. Wearing the same stinking cloths for weeks until they either tore or rotted off of us. And stink, you could have smelled us a mile away. Remember how we washed with dirt to get the dirt off.

Every night we slept one awake, one trying to sleep on night ambush. Even in the rear, An Hoa for me, we slept in reinforced bunkers on cots. It was only a dream to imagine that others went into the wire at 6pm every evening and had hot chow and slept on a mattress with sheets and stream a movie and check your email. At An Hoa, whenever DaNang got rocketed or mortared we got physical ground assaults on our wire.

I was so lucky that I never got hit like you and Jack and Doug, I'm not sure about Tony. On the other hand I got to spend day after day in that hell hole trying to not get killed again. I wish I had a camel right now.

[Mongoose]

I can say this, Nam made me a clean person. To this day, I take 3 showers a day. If its where I can. And I never waste food. I'll never forget our Bn. Commander, Col. Robertson arranged to have turkey and dressing, brought out to us in the bush . On Thanksgiving 1968. Just before Operation Meade River. First real food, in a long time. For a few hours we forgot about Nam, and ate like real people did.

[advanced]

I can say this, Nam made me a clean person. To this day, I take 3 showers a day. If its where I can. And I never waste food. I'll never forget our Bn. Commander, Col. Robertson arranged to have turkey and dressing, brought out to us in the bush . On Thanksgiving 1968. Just before Operation Meade River. First real food, in a long time. For a few hours we forgot about Nam, and ate like real people did.

We got the turkey also, I remember the messcook saying to one of our guys, wtf, do you think this thing is a thousand legger, because everyone wanted a leg. Yeah, we were living high, then they sent us into Mead River and the Hook, where so many of us got wasted. Kinda like the meal before the execution. You drinkin those mocha latas yet?

Yeah, I take 1-2 a day myself, can't stand to be nasty anymore.

[sparkie]

I,,,,,am encumbered,,,,, and at a loss. tried so hard to get there, but had the wrong MOS. I am glad to call you Brothers, but am ashaimed to. Forgive me.

[Mongoose]

Sparkie, I would have been honored to have served next to you, no matter where we were.

[sparkie]

Thank you, Billy. I tend to cry a bit. Once in a while. It was my war I missed. 58,000 and I feel one o them shoulda been me. I didn't join in '69 to hide.

[advanced]

Thank you, Billy. I tend to cry a bit. Once in a while. It was my war I missed. 58,000 and I feel one o them shoulda been me. I didn't join in '69 to hide.

Ken, much respect to you Sir, you stood on that thin line just like we did. Like you said, nobody joined the MC in 69 to sit in the cheap seats. Luck of the draw. Being a Marine has nothing to do with courage. If I only knew back then what I knew - I would do it all over again. If, however, I knew back then what I know now I would have never joined.

Marines in the 60's joined by taking one flying jumping leap into the abyss, the unknown. None of us had any idea where we were going to land or what would be asked of us. We were just determined to become Marines and few of us at the time knew what that meant.

Look at the poolies here today, they want to know every detail of what to expect in every aspect of their entire careers.

Ken, you showed your courage and quality as a Marine simply by standing on that line. S/F

[Riven37]

When I refer to the old corps is when you were the property of the US Government. Today, you are not, you’re told you need to buy your own flak jackets, clothing, helmets etc… even some bought their own weapons. This is the difference between old Corps and new Corps. I was given all my stuff, the only thing a needed to buy was extra clothing if I needed to and that was all otherwise my Government supplied it all for me from weapon to food. Today, you can be let go due to lack of war or conflict. Today the New Corps is a job, and you can be laid off from being a Marine.

The Marine Corps began in 1776 and by 1971 the New Corps was rushed in ( changes to uniform) and has been transformed beyond that point to what you see today. In my time you lost your leg (s) you were muster out (retiered) out of the Corps. Today, men with lost legs are placed back into service if they so wish. This is my opinion, Today’s Marine Corps is The Marines as today’s advertisement states they seem to have drop the word Corps and call them The Marine’s the proud, the few. It’s all on how to get those young boys to come into the Corps. I am Old Corps, like you were old Corps …. When we die we’re just Marines.









I read a lot of posts on here and many refer to the old corps. Never do I

hear a boot referring to his/her duty as in the New Corps. So that I do

not make a mistake in refering to what I served in (yea yea I know the

Marines are the Marines , regarless of when u served and I say BS to that)

When did the Old Corps start and when did you THINK it ended? And

what would you call the "new Corps?"

[HST]

They have to buy their uniforms, weapons and 782 gear?

[Mongoose]

They have to buy their uniforms, weapons and 782 gear?
Tony, someone has to be shetting us.

[advanced]

I believe it means they have to buy their own iPods.

[Mxzero]

Yeah, never had to pay for anything myself, they gave me everything in terms of gear. Obviously, if you want different stuff you gotta buy it, but I've never had to pay for anything extra. Though...

[TheReservist]

I'm still waiting to hear more about this school that they send recruits to now...

[Old Marine]

What school are you talking about???

[HST]

We had guys who didn't qualify, they just gave them continous sh*t but they graduated with us. There were draftee platoons at SD that had over half non-quals because they thought it would keep them out of Nam...sin loi MFers. That one didn't work at all, I was in staging with some of those dudes

[Mongoose]

We had guys who didn't qualify, they just gave them continous sh*t but they graduated with us. There were draftee platoons at SD that had over half non-quals because they thought it would keep them out of Nam...sin loi MFers. That one didn't work at all, I was in staging with some of those dudes
Thats right on ,Tony. If you didn't qualify, you still graduated. We only had one that didn't quality, and he never heard the end of it, all the way to the last day. The man went through a living hell until then.

[Mongoose]

What in the world is Mongoose doing away from the nearest Starbucks, now that he relocated??????? LOL---I thought everyone up there sipped Lattes and were on their laptops in those coffee places, Wild Bill.
Hell Dave, thats where I'm at! There's so many Starbucks up here, they're across the street from each other in some places.

[advanced]

Our guys that weren't shooting well did get special treatment. At night, at the range, the recruits that looked like they might go unk were called "Breathers."

Every night they had to get their buckets from their 782 gear, fill them with water, get on their hands and knees before their buckets and stick their heads into the water until the DI's told them to come out. Well, ya'll know the DI's, and it's hard to hold your breath that long. So the DI's would grab them and hold their heads in the water. What trashing and kicking and some almost drowned.

The lesson was on how to hold your breath. We had 3 go Unk. There was no special school that I was aware of, the 3 did have to report to "Sinners Call" for a week after we left the range. Each of them every night would ask for the "Fast Easy" treatment so they got their asses kicked each evening. Punishment was for "Embarrassing your DI."

[Old Marine]

My UNK's always got to wear their utilities backwards and got to march backwards whever we went. It usually only lasted until we got back to the Depot. Way too many spies on the showplace of the Marine Corps.

[jamielang1951]

I've always believe new Corps, old Corps, Marine Corps.

Now with the repeal of DADT.

Old Corps ended 09.19.2011-2400 hrs.

New Corps start 09.20.2011-0001 hrs.


Marine Corps Birthday Ball will never be the same. You just know they will rub our noses in it.
Chesty is rolling over in his grave.
I feel shame knowing all those who have gone before us is watching.

IMHO

[MOS4429]

I'd second that, Jamie.

[Carpshooter]

I got to agree ! ;)

[jaggerace]

Whats wrong with openly gays serving in the military?

[ecfree]

Whats wrong with openly gays serving in the military?
JERK

[jaggerace]

that's actually a serious question

[Mongoose]

that's actually a serious question
Actually, this is a serious answer.
JERK!

[joseywales]

Keep in mind that the person who said that about gays uses joe shumucatelli in a lot of his profiles and is from "the other site", if you know what i mean
another person who used smuckatelli is yourphone is mine, and italian beef, and fatty, all one person
Just keep this in mind when you deal with him

[jaggerace]

Funny how you classify me as being several others on this forum(which is not the case you). I just have different opinion than others, because I have an open mind. I don't curse or insult anyone on here.

So when I ask what's wrong with openly gays serving, I was not being negative nor sarcastic. Everyone has an opinion on the matter. It seems this place is unanimous about it. I'm neither for or against it, its just the way it is.

[joseywales]

fine fine fine YOU tell me how you happen to stumble across the name joe schmuckatelli and the other profiles i mentioned happen to also

mere coincidence

[jaggerace]

You're still wrongfully accusing me of this??? Oh brother

[HST]

I don't think that there's a thing wrong with gays serving openly...as long as they're all in the same unit.....Lets see, we could call them the suck squad or the butt brothers....maybe not...does anybody here have a good name for a gay outfit?

[Mongoose]

I don't think that there's a thing wrong with gays serving openly...as long as they're all in the same unit.....Lets see, we could call them the suck squad or the butt brothers....maybe not...does anybody here have a good name for a gay outfit?
Tony, how bout Band of Brotherettes.

[joseywales]

Young fella, jagger, you gotta listen to what Im saying
Im pointing to the use of joe smuckatelli and thats it
Coincidence

[jaggerace]

I don't think that there's a thing wrong with gays serving openly...as long as they're all in the same unit.....Lets see, we could call them the suck squad or the butt brothers....maybe not...does anybody here have a good name for a gay outfit?
Or you can have a company with one pitching platoon and you catching platoon.

[Kegler300]

http://johndenugent.com/images/death-from-behind-queer-military-unit.jpg

[advanced]

I don't think that there's a thing wrong with gays serving openly...as long as they're all in the same unit.....Lets see, we could call them the suck squad or the butt brothers....maybe not...does anybody here have a good name for a gay outfit?

Tony, I have a good name for a gay outfit, how bout the 3/26. They always seemed real gay to me.

[FistFu68]

:D LOL...Yeah must Be a Bear telling Your Grandkid's a Bunch of Gay Grunts saved Your Bacon once upon a Time,...Since they Disbanded The 26TH for Fragging Fag's(LOL) :D :iwo:

[advanced]

:D LOL...Yeah must Be a Bear telling Your Grandkid's a Bunch of Gay Grunts saved Your Bacon once upon a Time :D :iwo:

SHuuuush, that was meant for Billy, not you Jack. Don't tell anyone.

[Mongoose]

Tony, I have a good name for a gay outfit, how bout the 3/26. They always seemed real gay to me.
Now Russ, is that any way to talk about the Marines that saved your azz, at Meade River.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: Billy ain't GAY,Him and Linda are getting NEARER :beer: :iwo:

[advanced]

Now Russ, is that any way to talk about the Marines that saved your azz, at Meade River.

You must have been hiding behind the curtain. I will now reverse myself, there is a place for gay Marines.

[advanced]

In reality, I do appreciate you all coming in and reinforcing us, I would most likely be dead now since 1968 if not for ya'll. But, since you all did save my ass I'm here now to bust your balls. I love you guys, that's not gay, that's for real. Thank you.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: Russ we know You were just Pulling on our DICK...S/F :D :iwo:

[advanced]

:evilgrin: Russ we know You were just Pulling on our DICK...S/F :D :iwo:

Jump back Jack, I only pull my own chain. The only plumbing I do is when there is internal work to be done.

[Mongoose]

Russ, that works for me too, brother. We fought for each other. And I won't let just anyone bust my balls.

[advanced]

You changed pic's, are you back in Texas?

[jamielang1951]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/jamielang1951/Signs%20and%20gifs/gifs/goneinsanegif.gif
Dear Lord, please give me a break, I've laughed till my side hurts.







http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/jamielang1951/Signs%20and%20gifs/gifs/av-4925.gif

[Mongoose]

You changed pic's, are you back in Texas?
No, I'm still in Starbucks land. I changed pics because my long hansom beard, goes well with my way above average hansom face. I know you don't know what I'm talking about. But it is, what it is.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: Russ could have been Worse You could have had Duragliter as Your Tailend Charlie :D :iwo:

[Mongoose]

:evilgrin: Russ could have been Worse You could have had Duragliter as Your Tailend Charlie :D :iwo:
Jack, your right. It couldn't get any worse than that. Who was his side-kick? Was it BR?

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: Yeah BR...and some other Knucklehead KFH???But The Funniest and Pretty Darn good Marine was 1OTh Zodiac He was a Real Hoot.Remember Him? :beer: :iwo:

[djsimpson]

you had to love the pound cake

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: What about them I think We called them CLUTCH PLATES? The Hard Chocalate Disc's that were wrapped in Foil???Use too Melt them down in My Canteen Cup full of Coffee took a Pretty good Sz. ball of C-4 Too do it though! :beer: :iwo:

[Hammer]

I loved Beans and Franks.

[Phantom Blooper]

I loved Beans and Franks.


Nowadays from what I hear it's Franks weenie!

[jamielang1951]

fine fine fine YOU tell me how you happen to stumble across the name joe schmuckatelli and the other profiles i mentioned happen to also

mere coincidence

Joe Schmuchkatelli is a Marine character in videos teaching Marines proper conduct when using social media. It's produce by the non government group Government To You. You can see one of the many videos with Joe Schmuckatelli at the bottom of this page.
http://gov2u.org/index.php/blog/161-the-marine-corps-hand-guide-to-online-social-behavior


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/jamielang1951/USMC%20Photos/SemperFibest.gif
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/jamielang1951/USMC%20Photos/EGAa0a.gif

[JimBorgman]

I entered the Corps in February 1954. We heard via scuttlebutt the Old Corps were those vintage Marines of World War II and before. I remember the changes in the EGA, and the Marines wore leather belts prior to my entry. I wish I could ask my uncle who enlisted in 1939, he passed away 10 years ago, retired as a Master Sergeant. Definitely Old Corps.

But, it is our Corps. We can call it what our experience and age dictates. We are all Marines, same code, little different training methods perhaps, but same code.

[sempidr]

I entered the Corps in February 1954. We heard via scuttlebutt the Old Corps were those vintage Marines of World War II and before. I remember the changes in the EGA, and the Marines wore leather belts prior to my entry. I wish I could ask my uncle who enlisted in 1939, he passed away 10 years ago, retired as a Master Sergeant. Definitely Old Corps.

But, it is our Corps. We can call it what our experience and age dictates. We are all Marines, same code, little different training methods perhaps, but same code.


What is up???

Mr Borgman, Three posts? And you have been here since Jan 07.
I am impressed. You are Old Corps to me.
Have a Great Birthday, and may you have as many more, as you want.

Maybe not Old Corps
But definitely an Old Marine (Young compared to you, Sir)

Ever forward
Sempidr

[MOS4429]

I always thought to each Marine, old corps was the period when they joined and everybody before them and new corps was all those who joined after they did.