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View Full Version : PT/Knowledge with AlohaMarine.



AlohaMarine
02-11-11, 01:09 AM
Cliffes: I PT'd my Marines. Some idiot got in the way. If you are "delicate", you probably shouldn't read this.

Apparently I do not do enough to "Nurture" and "Care for" and "educate" my Marines. As such, I am a horrible NCO. So I decided to, in my last 2 months on active duty, become a better leader. 4 years is 4 years right? Don't give up.

I met all my LCpls and PFCs at the armory at 0500. We got a Mk19 and an M2. (That's a 50 cal, ladies)

We took them over to a field, I had my Light Duty BAS Warrior stand firewatch on the one we weren't using and I spaced them about 100 yards apart.

I gave them all a quick class on disassembly, function checking, immediate and remedial action. They already knew this, but I had to show them for it to be a fair "examination."

Then I made them all build a house, and stay that way.

I grabbed one and told him to assume a firing position behind the 50. I told him to pretend like he was firing (with "bang bang" and everything)

Then I would yell "MISFIRE" and watch him perform the steps. If he performed immediate action correctly, I would have him get the next Marine. The first 3 did it flawlessly, complete with the act of putting the belt back on the feed pawls, everything you'd expect even if the weapon were live.

Then #4 shows up.

BANG BANG BANG

MISFIRE

He immediately opens the feed tray cover, "Sweeps" the brass and links away, closes the feed tray cover and prets to start firing again.

What about recharging the weapon? Or waiting for a hangfire? Or reloading?

So I say immediate action did not work, perform remedial action. You have trash stuck in the receiver, disassemble the weapon! Total cluster****. He has no idea what the hell he's doing, when he's done this enough that he should.

Then of course I start yelling the goodies, "Hurry up" "Get this weapon back up, repel the enemy assault, your friends are bleeding out!" "PFC xxx just died" (I would then tell that PFC to begin doing pushups, remember, they have been holding the house this entire time)

The idiot was completely ****ed. After the entire platoon was killed I told him to run to the Mk19, and bring it back. When he came back, I told him to get the tripod, and we repeated the back and forth for a while (While the squad did pushups)

Naturally, I was letting out some choice words, and out of NOWHERE, this SERGEANT shows up and tells me that Marines "have the right to get to the chow hall without hearing profanity".

:devious:

REALLY? What in the ****ity **** **** is going on? I couldn't have made it up. I was in complete shock. Its 0600 on a Thursday morning on a MARINE CORPS BASE and you're complaining about profanity and degrading PFCs. Sorry to hurt your cute, pierced little ears.

So I play dumb, and tell her,

"Yeah. You're probably right. But you see, I'm just really mad cuz I think he broke this 50 cal (He didn't). I don't wanna get in trouble. Maybe you can show me if its broken?" It was like seeing a 14 year old girl look under the hood of a Grand National. Then I explained that my Marines have the right to adequate training and she'd just have to suck it the **** up. She walked away angry.

Are we not allowed to say mean things to LCpls and below anymore? If this is the Corps some of you want you can have it.

Regardless of the inane, politically correct Sergeant's comments, what do you think of the knowledge/PT session?

rwest158497
02-11-11, 01:52 AM
of Course You Can Yell At A Private A Pfc Or A L/cpl For Acting Like An Idiot....i Got My Ass Chewed Many Times By An Nco...i Deserved It...this Kinder Gentler World We Live In Has No Place In The Marine Corps....if You Cant Take Being Yelled At How Are You Gonna React Under Pressure? Dont Join The Marines If You Dont Want To Take Orders From A Higher Rank..as We All Know When Your Told To Do Something You Do It....it Makes Me ****ing Sick To Hear People Whining About Being Told Anything Other Than What They Want To Hear Or Do!!!!toughen Up A Little And Stop Acting Like Sissys...these Are Marines Were Talking About Not Little Kids.....

haebyungdae
02-11-11, 02:23 AM
The conduct of the duties for each MOS are different. I personally never have, as of yet, nor do I believe in yelling at a grown person in a situation other then life or death. Nor would it be appropriate in my own community (being a 2600) to combine say the setup of antennas and computer equipment with PT because stuff will get broken and with the technical ambiances of my MOS it just would not work. This all said though, I would never go up a group of infantryman PT'ing and tell them to knock it off because that's stupid. The knowledge/PT session you gave in your example is both a worthwhile physical workout and efficient training I would believe. It would be ridiculous for myself to tell you how to train your Marines, just as much as it would be ridiculous for you to do the same to me. Marines get too caught up in the we're all the same Marines, every Marine a rifleman mentality that they forget to stay out of other people's business, when it comes to situations like this.

Was she from Radio Bn? lol

WXSgt
02-11-11, 03:39 AM
While i was in my school our CO hated hearing any profanity and would reprimand NCO's for using it during "counseling" sessions. unfortunately his office was in the barracks since we were a small detachment. thus in the future we would have a lookout. I completely disagree with being told no profanity.

usmcmsf
02-11-11, 02:09 PM
Profanity is a good way to let out your frustration without choking or hitting someone. Without it, all that frustration builds up until it comes to blows. I generally try to include one or two "bad" words in every sentence.

Marine1011
02-11-11, 02:12 PM
looking at your profile where you prefer hard core porn, i can see why you feel every sentence should include profanity. guess it comes in handy to avoid fights though Good for you. Sensible post

Marine1011
02-11-11, 02:21 PM
Call em as I see am but thk anyway

Baker1971
02-11-11, 02:26 PM
I can see its use sometimes, would say it depends on the exact circumstances. No rule to cover it 100% of the time. Just my two cents.

Hamelink83
02-11-11, 03:13 PM
Yelling and profanity is all part of the combat arms world. The only ones who have an issue with it are the non-combat arms Marines, because they don't understand.

The use for it in a PT/EMI/Knowledge fun session is that it induces stress. Learning to operate with someone screaming at you to un---- yourself and then recover from that ----up under that stress, will bread a more combat effective Marine. Working with Aloha's example with the 50 cal. Say that particular Marine is in a firefight where his gun truck is covering a squad of Marines so that they can maneuver to a better position. The weapon system goes down. That's a stress that cannot be duplicated. When stress goes up, your failure rate goes up (think back to the whole Cooper's color code thing). Inducing stress in training enables that Marine to more effective handle the stressors of combat. Again, something most combat arms MOS's will never understand.

I see no problem with you did.

tripledog
02-11-11, 04:41 PM
Is this the New Corps?

afraziaaaa
02-11-11, 04:57 PM
Yelling and profanity is all part of the combat arms world. The only ones who have an issue with it are the non-combat arms Marines, because they don't understand.

The use for it in a PT/EMI/Knowledge fun session is that it induces stress. Learning to operate with someone screaming at you to un---- yourself and then recover from that ----up under that stress, will bread a more combat effective Marine. Working with Aloha's example with the 50 cal. Say that particular Marine is in a firefight where his gun truck is covering a squad of Marines so that they can maneuver to a better position. The weapon system goes down. That's a stress that cannot be duplicated. When stress goes up, your failure rate goes up (think back to the whole Cooper's color code thing). Inducing stress in training enables that Marine to more effective handle the stressors of combat. Again, something most combat arms MOS's will never understand.

I see no problem with you did.

I am a Marine with a non-combat arms MOS. I heart swearing, and I heart training.

Don't let the weak NCOs who drink the politically-correct kool-aid and like to wipe their 1stSgts ass with compliments on post-it notes get you down. If we don't train our Marines properly, as you were doing, then we will not be the Marine Corps.

That being said, each MOS has a function within the Marine Corps and each Marine within that MOS needs to be trained properly to perform that function, whether its performing immediate action under stress, getting my BAH ran properly or fixing a helicopter engine. Some Marines are promoted too quickly to see the bigger picture clearly, so they focus on inconsequential things like "clean language" or "morals"; two things which are of use to Marines only when rubbing elbows with socialites.

Wood5831
02-11-11, 06:36 PM
I saw nothing wrong with what you did.

HOWARDROARK3043
02-11-11, 09:59 PM
you could of asked her to check the head space and timing,,,,,,,,,,,the .50's head space and timing

Marine1011
02-12-11, 08:18 AM
aloha is Chesty, Dan Daly and Smedley Butler all rolled into one package. You go, Marine, you keep impressin em.
Hell, the Corps needs you, how they going to get along in two months when you take off out of the Corps?

Gunz
02-12-11, 08:57 AM
God bless the Grunts!

dhuntington
02-12-11, 11:12 AM
The conduct of the duties for each MOS are different. I personally never have, as of yet, nor do I believe in yelling at a grown person in a situation other then life or death. Nor would it be appropriate in my own community (being a 2600) to combine say the setup of antennas and computer equipment with PT because stuff will get broken and with the technical ambiances of my MOS it just would not work. This all said though, I would never go up a group of infantryman PT'ing and tell them to knock it off because that's stupid. The knowledge/PT session you gave in your example is both a worthwhile physical workout and efficient training I would believe. It would be ridiculous for myself to tell you how to train your Marines, just as much as it would be ridiculous for you to do the same to me. Marines get too caught up in the we're all the same Marines, every Marine a rifleman mentality that they forget to stay out of other people's business, when it comes to situations like this.

Was she from Radio Bn? lol

I'm a little concerned about this attitude. Will none of your Marine radiomen ever have to work under intense combat conditions? If the crap hits the fan and infantrymen's lives are depending upon them to set up without "stuff getting broke" how many good Marines have to die so that the poor radioman never has to endure the stress of yelling?

usmcmsf
02-12-11, 04:29 PM
looking at your profile where you prefer hard core porn, i can see why you feel every sentence should include profanity. guess it comes in handy to avoid fights though Good for you. Sensible post

Good to go Devildog :thumbup::yes::thumbdown

Old Marine
02-12-11, 05:25 PM
Is this the New Corps?

Would not call it New Corps, but maybe new breed that happens to be EAS very soon.:evilgrin:

Tennessee Top
02-12-11, 06:03 PM
She had no business sticking her nose in yours. The way you train your personnel is up to you as long as it's done safely and according to the unit's SOP.

As for profanity I used it but sparingly and for affect; if my Marines heard me swearing they knew it wasn't just to get their attention. Something or somebody had to really be screwed up.

I never yelled in public; that was done behind closed doors.

Everybody develops their own leadership style. Some yell, scream, and curse and are effective leaders while others never raise their voice or swear but are just as effective.

Beltayn
02-13-11, 01:51 PM
That's a motivating PT session idea. I like it.

haebyungdae
02-13-11, 02:27 PM
I'm a little concerned about this attitude. Will none of your Marine radiomen ever have to work under intense combat conditions? If the crap hits the fan and infantrymen's lives are depending upon them to set up without "stuff getting broke" how many good Marines have to die so that the poor radioman never has to endure the stress of yelling?

Do not let the unit name, "Radio Bn," fool you. We are not radio operators, the unit actually has very few 06XX's in the unit (maybe some, but no ops). Besides Headquarters Company, it is all 26XX's. If it comes down to an intense combat situation, the normal SOP for Radio Bn team-level personnel, is actually to not fight and stay with the sensitive equipment, basically waiting to the point where EDP (emergency destruction plan) has to be initiated.

AlohaMarine
02-14-11, 12:48 AM
Do not let the unit name, "Radio Bn," fool you. We are not radio operators, the unit actually has very few 06XX's in the unit (maybe some, but no ops). Besides Headquarters Company, it is all 26XX's. If it comes down to an intense combat situation, the normal SOP for Radio Bn team-level personnel, is actually to not fight and stay with the sensitive equipment, basically waiting to the point where EDP (emergency destruction plan) has to be initiated.

You are absolutely correct. I was surprised to find out a radio battalion is more like an intel battalion. They've got secret squirrels running around all over the place.

haebyungdae
02-14-11, 06:50 AM
You are absolutely correct. I was surprised to find out a radio battalion is more like an intel battalion. They've got secret squirrels running around all over the place.

Like Intel Bn, but cooler and more squirrelly. Yep I was there until mid-2008, tucked away in the back corner over by tracks and LV boondocker.

DrZ
02-14-11, 08:00 AM
My NCOs knew their butt was on the line with me if the troops were not trained properly. I knew my butt was on the line with my LT if my NCOs and troops were not trained properly. I was there watching the training and only stepped in if there were issues. I am afraid the Sgt and I would have walked to the side and had words if she determined my NCOs were not doing their job...especially seeing they were doing the job I gave them.

Just keep on training your troops and do it as you see fit. If the young SGT doesn't like it...send her up the chain to your senior NCO or SNCO. Let them set her straight.

Keep on keeping on!