What to Say to Men Who Have Negative Opinions on Females in the Military

[Languagelover23]

I encountered an extremely frustrating opinion concerning women in the armed forces. This is from someone I know pretty well in a professional manner. What do I say to men who totally disregard the efforts of the FET and those women who serve with honor in the military? I realize that the military is still very much a man's world, but the comments made to me were very insulting. Any recommendations? Should I simply disregard their opinions? I'm going in as a linguist and I feel I will make as good a linguist as any male. I find it offensive and disrespectful to ignore the efforts of women in the military and would like some advice on how to handle that. Thanks, Marines

P.S. I accidentally posted this in Poolee Hall, so here it is again.

:banana:

[gkmoz]

My perspective ? Women Marines are Marines ! Need to toughen up and grow a tougher skin. IMHO Moz 68-70 USMC

[Languagelover23]

Well ... It doesn't bother me from a stranger, but this is someone who knows me so it was slightly offensive. I'm not like sitting here crying my eyes out or anything, just maybe looking for a few witty comebacks and/or some valid points I could make about the subject. Thanks : )

[USNAviator]

I don't have any problem with woman serving in any branch. They have been serving on ships in the Navy for decades, serving right along side their male counterparts. They are now Aviators and recently have started serving on subs. However I think that billet will be limited to officers

My only objection is women in ground combat and since that's been discussed Ad nauseam on here it's not worth getting into again.

[gkmoz]

what was the context of the offense, generically speaking basics !

[Languagelover23]

My "business associate" who I have known for about a year, basically said that he never met a single woman he respected while in the Army. He said they all got rank and promotions by being on their backs or on their knees. He called them "useless" to all branches of the military. I politely disagreed. I said, what about the FET? Males can't do what they are doing, so isn't that essential to the mission? And he basically signed off on me.

I was just offended because he knows me. I am a married 23 year old woman and for him to insinuate I would be included in that category just got me riled ...

[Tennessee Top]

Maybe he was just pulling your chain because he knew it rile you...why give him the satisfaction?. Besides that, he was in the Army so his opinions don't count for anything anyway. There is no comparison between female soldiers and Women Marines but he would not recognize that fact.

Obviously, he is a sexist and no matter what you say to him he is not going to change his attitude. So, why waste any energy and get your blood pressure up? I would just maintain the minimum professional relationship but not engage this individual otherwise; once you ship in April he will be out of your life completely anyway.

Good luck.

[Languagelover23]

Oh I won't be working with him again LOL. You're right, he did not see the obvious differences between female soldiers and female Marines : )

Unfortunately, I don't think he was kidding around. He is a temperamental character. Not my style!

[lonewolf121]

Sounds like a real piece of work. He wouldn't understand the Women Marines or the Marines in general. He will never understand what it means to be that sharp, that squared away, that fit, that honorable. A-R-M-Y: Aint Ready for the Marines Yet.

[Old Marine]

He is probably that Army Strong I keep hearing about. Smells strong.

[Languagelover23]

Hey now, my husband was in the Army and he understands fine why his wife wants to be a Marine. I guess that means that guy is just a d-bag and my hubby is awesome regardless of his Army affiliations : D

[lonewolf121]

Right on! I was going to state earlier about it; but I guess I'll say it now. I've only known two types of Army folks; those that respect Marines and those that don't. Also; our household is a multi branch family; my wife was Navy. In service or prior-military spouses can be incredibly supportive.

[Languagelover23]

Right on! I was going to state earlier about it; but I guess I'll say it now. I've only known two types of Army folks; those that respect Marines and those that don't. Also; our household is a multi branch family; my wife was Navy. In service or prior-military spouses can be incredibly supportive.

Exactly. It's all about the individual. And I expect that my spouse will be the perfect USMC spouse : )

He might need to start a husband's club on base when I get there : D

[lonewolf121]

That's awesome! And a bit ironic; I was my wife's dependent for her last three years of her service.

[SGT7477]

This is a Marine site, why do we have to hear about the army of none, army=Aren't really men yet,lol, Semper Fidelis.

[Languagelover23]

This is a Marine site, why do we have to hear about the army of none, army=Aren't really men yet,lol, Semper Fidelis.

My husband is a real man. And you hear about the Army because 1. it exists, 2. we need it as a point of comparison.

[SGT7477]

When and If you earn our title you will understand, Marines are second to none, Semper Fidelis.

[Languagelover23]

When and If you earn our title you will understand, Marines are second to none, Semper Fidelis.

If I didn't understand that, I wouldn't be joining ...

[SGT7477]

He is probably that Army Strong I keep hearing about. Smells strong.
Good one Gunny,:thumbup:, Semper Fidelis.

[SGT7477]

If I didn't understand that, I wouldn't be joining ...
Maybe you can help us If you earn our beloved title, keep the tradition going as we been fixing the army's mistakes since 1775,lol,Semper Fidelis.

[DrZ]

When and If you earn our title you will understand, Marines are second to none, Semper Fidelis.


I agree with your statement.... Marines are second to none...

But on the most part... The Marine Spouse... just to put up with us... are second to none as well... even if they served a tour in any other branch.

I have met many Army types who are damn fine people and damn fine soldiers. While not Marines... many carry the same Espirit de Corps in their hearts.

[Languagelover23]

Thank you DrZ : ) I can feel that Marines are #1, but I still have appreciation for all servicemen and their respective branches and duties performed.

[New York]

I'll say this much, if a woman can save my life and is able to keep with the same standards of that MOS, she got my respect. Ive seen some bad ass chicks in the Marines, ill gladly go to combat with them anyday.

This makes me think of Star Ship Troopers movie for some reason lol...

[Languagelover23]

I mean I'm not denying there AREN'T females in the military like the ones he described. It was ignorant of him to group them all together, however.

[SGT7477]

I agree with your statement.... Marines are second to none...

But on the most part... The Marine Spouse... just to put up with us... are second to none as well... even if they served a tour in any other branch.

I have met many Army types who are damn fine people and damn fine soldiers. While not Marines... many carry the same Espirit de Corps in their hearts.
Very true Brother, I had a chance to join the army national guard but couldn't get myself to wear the uniform of another branch, I do respect the other branches but simply put Marines Do It Best, you can't compare apples to oranges the same goes comparing a soldier to a Marine, never hurts to thicken ones skin before bootcamp,lol, Semper Fidelis.:flag:

[Languagelover23]

I suppose I'll find out just how thick my skin is on 20110411 lol

[SGT7477]

I suppose I'll find out just how thick my skin is on 20110411 lol
Yes you will Sugar,lol, Good Luck, Semper Fidelis.:flag:

[Languagelover23]

Thanks everyone!

If I was supposed to say it as a nasty poolee, I'd throw out a Semper Fi back to you all!

[1stRad2671]

Don't worry about it. Radio BNs and support BNs aren't like the rest of the Marine Corps. Lots of females in the linguist field.

[SlingerDun]

I encountered an extremely frustrating opinion concerning women in the armed forces.....Should I simply disregard their opinions?No, make note of it.

And if at sometime in the future you're able to context any examples of those negative opinions that were directed towards female members of the military... Try hard not to be that chick.
You will likely receive enough support from peers and superiors if you're not that chick

[Languagelover23]

No, make note of it.

And if at sometime in the future you're able to context any examples of those negative opinions that were directed towards female members of the military... Try hard not to be that chick.
You will likely receive enough support from peers and superiors if you're not that chick


Note taken, thanks :banana:

[crazymjb]

I hate to break it to you, but it only gets worse before it gets better. As long as you keep your head up, and be the *****(female dog synonym), not the slut, you should be fine. Again, I can't stress that enough. My fiance and I have both been in for coming up on 3 years (and together longer than that), and the crap she has had to deal with makes me pretty ****ed off, but there's nothing I can do except be happy that she chose *****. Sexual harassment, which is all too prevalent in the military, was really only a big issue for her in her MOS schooling. Once she got to her unit and people realized she wasn't there to mess around she hasn't had any real problems, except when they link up with other units and people who don't know her, and it turns into her telling people off again...

Just be prepared, there are some pretty big D-bags in the military with regard to how they treat women. Just remember nobody can make you do anything, if you have to get one of your instructors, superiors, fellow Marines, etc kicked out of the Marine Corps, your probably doing the Corps a favor, as well as many other women in the Marine Corps. There are plenty of Marines who aren't POS's, if you need to help a few of the junk ones find their way out, go right ahead. Don't let anyone take advantage of you in any way shape or form, that is not what Marines do.

Good luck,

Mike

[Languagelover23]

I hate to break it to you, but it only gets worse before it gets better. As long as you keep your head up, and be the *****(female dog synonym), not the slut, you should be fine. Again, I can't stress that enough. My fiance and I have both been in for coming up on 3 years (and together longer than that), and the crap she has had to deal with makes me pretty ****ed off, but there's nothing I can do except be happy that she chose *****. Sexual harassment, which is all too prevalent in the military, was really only a big issue for her in her MOS schooling. Once she got to her unit and people realized she wasn't there to mess around she hasn't had any real problems, except when they link up with other units and people who don't know her, and it turns into her telling people off again...

Just be prepared, there are some pretty big D-bags in the military with regard to how they treat women. Just remember nobody can make you do anything, if you have to get one of your instructors, superiors, fellow Marines, etc kicked out of the Marine Corps, your probably doing the Corps a favor, as well as many other women in the Marine Corps. There are plenty of Marines who aren't POS's, if you need to help a few of the junk ones find their way out, go right ahead. Don't let anyone take advantage of you in any way shape or form, that is not what Marines do.

Good luck,

Mike


Excellent Mike, thanks for keeping it real.

Thank you and your wife for your service.

Any silly males will know very quickly what I'm about. I wanted to join the best and be the best. If I wanted to be a whiner, I would have joined the Chair Force with my best friend : D

[crazymjb]

No problem. I am not trying to scare you, but I think knowledge is power, and if you are going to be a cryptolinguist, I'm sure you know how to utilize it.

Again, good luck. Keep your head up. Never let your guard down. Don't be afraid to be a complete and total b!tch and assert yourself when necessary.

Mike

[Languagelover23]

Don't worry about it. Radio BNs and support BNs aren't like the rest of the Marine Corps. Lots of females in the linguist field.

So you were in a radio battalion? I'd love to hear about your experiences.

[Languagelover23]

No problem. I am not trying to scare you, but I think knowledge is power, and if you are going to be a cryptolinguist, I'm sure you know how to utilize it.

Again, good luck. Keep your head up. Never let your guard down. Don't be afraid to be a complete and total b!tch and assert yourself when necessary.

Mike

Thank you for that advice. I have been wondering if it's acceptable to deal with aggressive people that way in the military. I bow down for no one. I will be a very successful linguist, I'm almost positive. I have a LOT of experience with foreign languages, and I want to get my hands dirty and use that to actually help.

[crazymjb]

If anyone treats you wrong, especially a superior, and even moreso an instructor, you hit them with the book. Long story short my fiance's roommate was suicidal due to her run-ins with an instructor, who went from SSgt to Pvt to Civilian pretty quickly after that. That should have happened long before he was able to hurt her that much. Unfortunately that wasn't the only instructor there acting in that manner, and hopefully the others got what they had coming.

Your an adult, the second a Marine acts outside of their professional duty, they no longer rate anything because of their rank. They are a POS that needs to be thrown out in the trash. There is a reason you have the ability to request mast, its to bypass problems, such as a Gunny who warns you that if you make official claims you will just be at (insert training site here) longer while they investigate. I urge you to react as you feel appropriate to any problems you have, save some other weaker minded girls like my fiances roommate the trouble down the road.

I'm not guaranteeing you have any serious issues like this, but honestly, her MOS schooling was such a **** show I would have liked to see that whole place burned to the ground. On the other hand, when she was in MCT, the female instructors were the ones who acted unprofessionally, so it goes both ways. Just be aware.

Mike

[Languagelover23]

If anyone treats you wrong, especially a superior, and even moreso an instructor, you hit them with the book. Long story short my fiance's roommate was suicidal due to her run-ins with an instructor, who went from SSgt to Pvt to Civilian pretty quickly after that. That should have happened long before he was able to hurt her that much. Unfortunately that wasn't the only instructor there acting in that manner, and hopefully the others got what they had coming.

Your an adult, the second a Marine acts outside of their professional duty, they no longer rate anything because of their rank. They are a POS that needs to be thrown out in the trash. There is a reason you have the ability to request mast, its to bypass problems, such as a Gunny who warns you that if you make official claims you will just be at (insert training site here) longer while they investigate. I urge you to react as you feel appropriate to any problems you have, save some other weaker minded girls like my fiances roommate the trouble down the road.

I'm not guaranteeing you have any serious issues like this, but honestly, her MOS schooling was such a **** show I would have liked to see that whole place burned to the ground. On the other hand, when she was in MCT, the female instructors were the ones who acted unprofessionally, so it goes both ways. Just be aware.

Mike

What is mast? Remember, I'm only a poolee : D

[crazymjb]

You'll learn about it in boot camp. But basically you skip the chain off command because they can't help you/you lost faith in them and go straight to someone above (you can essentially choose the level) to get your problem fixed. It's a last ditch thing, and I doubt you'd ever have to use it period, let alone once you get settled in a unit, but in MOS school where you don't really have a "chain of command," if you have a serious issue, go ahead and use it, it's there for a reason.

Mike

[Languagelover23]

You'll learn about it in boot camp. But basically you skip the chain off command because they can't help you/you lost faith in them and go straight to someone above (you can essentially choose the level) to get your problem fixed. It's a last ditch thing, and I doubt you'd ever have to use it period, let alone once you get settled in a unit, but in MOS school where you don't really have a "chain of command," if you have a serious issue, go ahead and use it, it's there for a reason.

Mike
Ok. I understand what you mean. This is clearly an irrelevant experience to real military personnel, but in high school, I was the corps commander of my AFJROTC unit, and I tried my hardest to go over my chain of command, because my instructors were destroying the unit. I remember that feeling of frustration while seeing my entire unit brought way below standard because our officer instructor retired and the MSgt's refused to let us do any of our regular events. I'm talking no more community service, no more training for cadets, nothing. I was upset because just being in JROTC made a huge change in me and my fellow cadets, and I did not want that feeling to be taken from future students.

[Tennessee Top]

Request Mast is a very important tool but should only be used as a last resort as stated above. You can imagine how your command will feel when you basically claim you have no confidence in their ability to resolve your issues(s). It can solve your problems but it can also create new problems for you. In a school enviornment, remember, it's the command who issues grades, class standings, permanent duty station assignments, etc. They may use the Request Mast proceedings as an excuse to retaliate against you. That is not supposed to happen but it does. Yes, you want justice, but remember there may be unexpected/undeserved consequences too.

You do not want to have the reputation of requesting mast as you will be branded a trouble-maker. As a career Marine with 22.6 years on active duty, I never once had a need to request mast; but, I never had to worry about sexual harrassment either.

During my career, I had the opportunity to work with and lead many female Marines. I would say 90% of them were squared-away and good-to-go (you always have your ten percenters in every group). I can understand the point crazymjb is trying to make but I wouldn't agree being a ***** is the right way to go. Personally, a female Marine under my leadership with that reputation would be counselled accordingly. I would prefer she, as well as her male counterparts, have reputations as professionals instead. If you are a professional at all times, that hopefully would be enough to prevent most problems.

You sound like you are intelligent and mature enough to figure things out on your own and I'm sure you will do just fine. Just do the best you can every day. Good luck.

[crazymjb]

I should emphasize I didn't mean be a ***** all around in daily life, but when it comes to getting hit on, etc, don't take it, at all, let it slide, etc. Laughing off flirting doesn't work, at least as far as I am told.

The Master Sgt is right about saying mast is a last resort... but my fiance's roommate probably should have used it before she attempted suicide. Sometimes **** is that bad, you don't need to necessarily expect it, but be prepared for it.

Mike

[Languagelover23]

I should emphasize I didn't mean be a ***** all around in daily life, but when it comes to getting hit on, etc, don't take it, at all, let it slide, etc. Laughing off flirting doesn't work, at least as far as I am told.

The Master Sgt is right about saying mast is a last resort... but my fiance's roommate probably should have used it before she attempted suicide. Sometimes **** is that bad, you don't need to necessarily expect it, but be prepared for it.

Mike

Thanks for that. No, I don't want to walk around with a chip on my shoulder 24/7 lol. I just meant when the need arises.

Where are all our WM's to contribute here? I think this type of advice would be great to share with other female poolees.

[tdrt]

My "business associate" who I have known for about a year, basically said that he never met a single woman he respected while in the Army. He said they all got rank and promotions by being on their backs or on their knees. He called them "useless" to all branches of the military. I politely disagreed. I said, what about the FET? Males can't do what they are doing, so isn't that essential to the mission? And he basically signed off on me.

I was just offended because he knows me. I am a married 23 year old woman and for him to insinuate I would be included in that category just got me riled ...

Get used to it. You will deal with this attitude every damn day and it won't matter if you're married or not.

[Marine84]

Girl, you are in for a rude awakening. Best learn now to keep your mouth shut when a man starts in on that $h!t. It's a losing battle. Let your actions show how great a Woman Marine you are..................IF you make it through boot camp.

[Languagelover23]

Girl, you are in for a rude awakening. Best learn now to keep your mouth shut when a man starts in on that $h!t. It's a losing battle. Let your actions show how great a Woman Marine you are..................IF you make it through boot camp.


I'm not good at that as of now LOL. The whole keeping my mouth shut thing and letting people walk all over me. That will certainly be a challenge for me ...

[slug]

Women have no business in combat areas, nor in any area inhabited by grunts. I have yet to meet a woman in the Corps who is fit for this duty. Too many idiot mistakes jeopardizing not only themselves, but the men there trying to do their jobs. They get in the way, physically and mentally. They are a distraction and detract from the mission and its effectiveness and efficiency. I have more, but not the time, so I will be back later.

[Languagelover23]

Women have no business in combat areas, nor in any area inhabited by grunts. I have yet to meet a woman in the Corps who is fit for this duty. Too many idiot mistakes jeopardizing not only themselves, but the men there trying to do their jobs. They get in the way, physically and mentally. They are a distraction and detract from the mission and its effectiveness and efficiency. I have more, but not the time, so I will be back later.


That's a different issue entirely. I was talking about women being in the military, period. This guy said they were all useless s.l.u.t.s.

[tdrt]

Women have no business in combat areas, nor in any area inhabited by grunts. I have yet to meet a woman in the Corps who is fit for this duty. Too many idiot mistakes jeopardizing not only themselves, but the men there trying to do their jobs. They get in the way, physically and mentally. They are a distraction and detract from the mission and its effectiveness and efficiency. I have more, but not the time, so I will be back later.

This issue has been covered and even though I cannot speak for other WMs, I agree with this statement.

[Marine84]

The whole keeping my mouth shut thing and letting people walk all over me.

It has nothing to do with letting people walk all over you. Flapping your lips in the wind doesn't make you a bada$$. Your convictions make you a bada$$.

In my 4 years in (and this was 27 years ago), if I could have a quarter for every time I heard "why do they let women in MY Marine Corps?", I would STILL be a rich b!tch today!

[Languagelover23]

It has nothing to do with letting people walk all over you. Flapping your lips in the wind doesn't make you a bada$$. Your convictions make you a bada$$.

In my 4 years in (and this was 27 years ago), if I could have a quarter for every time I heard "why do they let women in MY Marine Corps?", I would STILL be a rich b!tch today!

I like that lol! I hear you all, I was really more concerned with this particular person. I realize I will encounter some of the same in the military, and I suppose I will just have to be the best 26xx I can be and let my work speak for itself. Thank you Marines, for all of your advice!

[USNAviator]

I like that lol! I hear you all, I was really more concerned with this particular person. I realize I will encounter some of the same in the military, and I suppose I will just have to be the best 26xx I can be and let my work speak for itself. Thank you Marines, for all of your advice!


Don't you have an answer yet??? Get over it!! Stop stroking your ego. If you do earn the EGA then come back and hold it proudly in this individuals face. Just hope for your sake you don't bilge out

Good luck to you sincerely but I sense this thread has another purpose

[Languagelover23]

Don't you have an answer yet??? Get over it!! Stop stroking your ego. If you do earn the EGA then come back and hold it proudly in this individuals face. Just hope for your sake you don't bilge out

Good luck to you sincerely but I sense this thread has another purpose

Fair enough. I'll discuss this once I earn my EGA. Thanks again!

[slug]

That's a different issue entirely. I was talking about women being in the military, period. This guy said they were all useless s.l.u.t.s.
Why do you think we call them Walking Mattresses? In many cases, the shoe fits, and we force them to wear it. Despite it, many men still hit it just because it's easy. I've said this opinion before, but I feel women should not be in the Marine Corps period, but that opinion is obviously too old to matter and is left as an opinion and a long lost wish. More realistically, they need to be further restricted on where they may go, and when women are needed elsewhere, they be very thoroughly screened and trained as they must be ready for the assignment.

My reasoning on why they shouldn't be here at all is that the Marine Corps was designed, and still holds the mission of, the fighting force of the Department of the Navy. That right there should define the entire Marine Corps as an "Infantry Capable" unit, just as a victor unit can be designed as a SOC, or Special Operations Capable. Doesn't mean they're all special operations operators, but they can fulfill and execute missions pushing the realm above that of standard infantry operations due to their training. And as the Marine Corps as a whole sitting with this capability, under definition, women should not be allowed.

Sure, you may call me sexist and the like, that's fine. I just appreciate and respect where gender roles lie, and where they should remain defined. I enjoy the way an all male unit runs. It's brutal, vulgar, efficient, and effective. When women come around, it is ... utter crap. I actually look forward to getting back to Horno or Mateo, it's where men act like men, not a man gagged and hancuffed as to not offend some woman who voluntarily joined this gun club in a man's world yet will still blow the whistle for sexual harassment or take advantage of her situation using her tits, ass, and ax wound for her self advancement. It's bull, it goes both ways, not just one side is at fault, but in the opinion of this Marine, one doesn't belong.

[USNAviator]

Fair enough. I'll discuss this once I earn my EGA. Thanks again!


Outstanding!! Good luck to you!!

[Languagelover23]

Outstanding!! Good luck to you!!

BTW, I'm still answering this thread because these Marines are still giving advice, which I appreciate : )

Again, I will acknowledge that there are indeed women like that in the military, but it is not good to group them together in the same category. The same can't be said for males, either. They can't all be the same. All I can do is not be one of the women my "friend" described.

So far, from my experiences with my awesome recruiters and with interactions with Marines on this site, I can say with confidence that I will be associating myself with some truly great people. I posted this in a moment when I was very annoyed, and it turned out to provide me some good advice. Once again, thank you all for your service and your non-PC advice, I can dig that!

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Done. Asked, answered, answered.

Good question but we are goin 'round the mulberry bush on this and I don't want it to degenerate into something else entirely.