View Full Version : Sensitive Issue.....
RiveraPMO
02-03-11, 04:43 PM
Brothers and sisters, I would like an honest opinion from you all. <br />
<br />
What do you think about a Marine who was discharged with an OTH and a re-enlistment code of 4? <br />
A Marine who, although...
I would say he should push for the upgrade in his discharge. Right now with an OTH he is barred from VA benefits (unless hurt while on active duty and is trying for compensation) and many companies...
josephd
02-03-11, 05:03 PM
I would have to know more details on what happened and how it went down to form an opinion. Based what I know of OTH's I would say the Marine made his/her own bed and now it is their time to sleep in it. I know the circumstances can be kind of shady on the Corps' part but it could have been avoided by the Marine going through the proper channels to take care of things on their own.
RiveraPMO
02-03-11, 05:07 PM
According to what I know and have seen, he has attempted not once, but twice to have his discharge upgraded. He's even contacted a congressman to help with the matter. Unlike him as he wasn't ever...
So they have denied him twice now. What exactly did he do to deserve an OTH?
RiveraPMO
02-03-11, 05:28 PM
I would have to know more details on what happened and how it went down to form an opinion. Based what I know of OTH's I would say the Marine made his/her own bed and now it is their time to sleep in it. I know the circumstances can be kind of shady on the Corps' part but it could have been avoided by the Marine going through the proper channels to take care of things on their own.
Such is not always the case, little brother. When I was in, there was a whole lot of, "Do as I say and not as I do." I'm sure that still goes on.
If a junior Marine is constantly scrutinized and setup for failure by his chain of command, kept from the resources that would assist him most in his career, then brother, I can't imagine how one should lay in the rack that was made for him.
If you made a mistake, as simple or as large as it may be, you're humiliated, pay fines and then later on down the road, you're found to have been completely innocent of the "Mistake" you supposedly made, would you appreciate having to lie in that bed as well?
Or course not. I assure you these are the points in this matter. No false bravado and only sincere best wishes for a former Marine whom I know deserves a shot at clearing his name.
Please, only serious responses please, brothers and sisters.
Semper Fi-:flag:
TunTvrnWarrior
02-03-11, 05:38 PM
He needs a good attorney familiar with military issues. I would suggest BGEN Joseph Composto USMC Retired. I used to work for him. He was fair with his Marines and has strong integrity.
josephd
02-03-11, 05:45 PM
Such is not always the case, little brother. When I was in, there was a whole lot of, "Do as I say and not as I do." I'm sure that still goes on.
If a junior Marine is constantly scrutinized and setup for failure by his chain of command, kept from the resources that would assist him most in his career, then brother, I can't imagine how one should lay in the rack that was made for him.
If you made a mistake, as simple or as large as it may be, you're humiliated, pay fines and then later on down the road, you're found to have been completely innocent of the "Mistake" you supposedly made, would you appreciate having to lie in that bed as well?
Or course not. I assure you these are the points in this matter. No false bravado and only sincere best wishes for a former Marine whom I know deserves a shot at clearing his name.
Please, only serious responses please, brothers and sisters.
Semper Fi-:flag:
Obviously you didn't take my post as a serious response. I may be "young" to the Corps but I am not wet behind the years when it comes to knowledge, common sense, and how the Corps works/doesn't work.
I know of a Marine specifically that got an OTH for something he did. Was he guilty, yes but the OTH could have been avoided by him stepping up and taking care of the aftermath through the guidance given to him. He failed to do so and let the paperwork pile up, it finally came down to an ultimatum that he start taking care of it and save face or don't and get the OTH.
But if this Marine in fact was not given the opportunities to save himself and was put in a bad position by the Corps itself then no he does not deserve to have his whole life ruined by it. And should fight it as long as it takes.
You didn't disclose this info in your first post, hence the reason for mine.
0351Griggs
02-03-11, 05:46 PM
I made Private 4 times...I was active for 3 years and inactive 3 years...My actual scores were below 2.0 - 2.0 by a looong way. <br />
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When I got my discharge papers? I had a 4.9 and 5.0 (near perfect...
I think that enlisted Marines sometimes get bad deals and unwarranted les than honorable discharges. Last week I read a very sad tale of a lance corporal that went to the credit union to cash a...
RiveraPMO
02-03-11, 06:05 PM
Thanks for sharing your story, brother. <br />
It is definitely true to the letter when you say, the Corps picks and chooses. I'm sure we've all known a few SSgt and GySgt "Brownnose." Lol! <br />
<br />
But, in all...
RiveraPMO
02-03-11, 06:13 PM
Tom- <br />
<br />
When he stood before the Colonel to receive NJP, he was represented by a SNCOIC and OIC who were brand new to PMO. When the Colonel asked them if they would say anything on his behalf to help...
Sgt Leprechaun
02-05-11, 12:48 AM
If he's been denied twice that is probably a done deal, then. The only way an OTH gets overturned, generally, is if there is material fact that warrants it. In other words, it was issued in error through some sort of screwup etc.
If he was convicted of something, (and unless it's overturned as above) there isn't much that he can do.
Just my worthless opinion.
RiveraPMO
02-05-11, 05:45 AM
If he's been denied twice that is probably a done deal, then. The only way an OTH gets overturned, generally, is if there is material fact that warrants it. In other words, it was issued in error through some sort of screwup etc.
If he was convicted of something, (and unless it's overturned as above) there isn't much that he can do.
Just my worthless opinion.
Never convicted of anything. And, as I mentioned previously, has more than enough evidence to prove that his NJP was completely unsat.
0351Griggs
02-05-11, 10:18 AM
If he's been denied twice that is probably a done deal, then. The only way an OTH gets overturned, generally, is if there is material fact that warrants it. In other words, it was issued in error through some sort of screwup etc.
If he was convicted of something, (and unless it's overturned as above) there isn't much that he can do.
Just my worthless opinion.
Your on the money...You can't retry the case from what I understand.
It basicly goes in front of some panel and they see if the judge ruled on fact of law. Don't give up, but, it's a done deal imo.
Sgt Leprechaun
02-05-11, 06:03 PM
Obviously, the Court of appeals says otherwise, despite his evidence.
RiveraPMO
02-06-11, 04:32 AM
Obviously, the Court of appeals says otherwise, despite his evidence.
This is true. But, still doesn't make it right. We're looking for ways to continue the fight and push forward. Any thoughts or suggestions on that or you just here to keep him while he's down by mentioning only the negative? We're looking for solutions to the problem here by reaching out to our brother and sister Marines. We obviously know which direction the board of appeals is facing.
As you mentioned in another post, thanks for your worthless opinion, brother.
RiveraPMO
02-06-11, 04:51 AM
kick**
advanced
02-06-11, 05:04 AM
Your total disrespect of Sgt Lep within your post is glaring in your self indulgence. You just joined this forum, you came here for advise and yet you refuse to take good advise because it is not...
0351 Corporal
02-06-11, 06:24 AM
RiveraPMO we want to help you in any way we can, but don't throw disrespect around when you haven't given us much to work with. So far all we have to go on is: <br />
<br />
1. He got OTH discharged. <br />
2. He...
Mongoose
02-06-11, 06:47 AM
Rivera, if any thing here is worthless. Its your attitude. How in the hell do you expect anyone to give any worth while feed back, when we dont know what happened. If your looking for a yes sir Marine, your in the wrong territory.I wouldnt help you if I could, now.
RiveraPMO
02-06-11, 08:13 AM
Brothers- <br />
<br />
If my comment was taken as a show of disrespect to another Marine, I apologize sincerely. Those were not nor ever my intentions. I made my comment because I felt that the comment was...
RiveraPMO
02-06-11, 08:28 AM
Hell Yah Dave! Well said. :marine:
Point taken, brothers. Going back to what was posted, we can not assume what was written to be a show of disrespect or attitude. But, I can tell you guys this much, some of you are sure quick to judge.
Someone mentioned, a higher board than the NDRB. If the original poster for that comment knows of something like that, that intel would be greatly appreciated.
Let's be serious here. We're all adults. Being denied twice, and the second denial was exactly the same as the first although the second package included paperwork to prove that their reasons for the first denial we were wrong, we'd know and understand that the board has made their decision. It's obvious that the government is trying to, as previously mentioned, sweep it up and throw it under the rug. Now, what I'm trying to do as a friend/brother is help to find resources to expose the ones sweeping and make it so that it doesn't happen to other Marines or service members.
To say things like, it's me who's case it is and on top of that assumption, to say it's a no wonder why?? Who's disrespecting who now? Especially since the comment wasn't even directed towards you. That action of a Marine looking out for another Marine is exactly what I'm here trying to do. I'm sure that point can be understood by all.
RiveraPMO
02-06-11, 08:34 AM
Rivera, it takes more than people realize for someone to come on and apologize. It looks easy, after all, it is just typing a few words, but it is not easy. I respect that.
Thanks, Dave. At least I've got ONE Marine in my corner here. :yes: Lol! In all seriousness, again, if my comments were taken wrong, I apologize again.
I'm just trying to find uncovered solutions.
TunTvrnWarrior
02-06-11, 08:47 AM
Rivera, I am going to repeat what I have said to you before. Get a good military attorney that has been in the Marine Corps. This situation is over your head. An attorney can find flaws that you have never thought of in the decision by the board.
TunTvrnWarrior
02-06-11, 08:54 AM
Rivera, I gave you the name of a very good attorney in an earlier post. This man's integrity and honor is above reproach. Look him up and ask him if he will help you. I used to be his and his MGYST's house mouse in S-3 at K-bay.
RiveraPMO
02-06-11, 09:28 AM
Rivera, I gave you the name of a very good attorney in an earlier post. This man's integrity and honor is above reproach. Look him up and ask him if he will help you. I used to be his and his MGYST's house mouse in S-3 at K-bay.
I did look him up when you mentioned it previously and all I could find when I google searched his name was a few pictures of him in uniform and a few articles of his retirement. I couldn't really find anything directing me on how to contact him. If you know how to specifically, any help would be appreciated. Thanks, bro.
RiveraPMO
02-06-11, 09:35 AM
You will be well on your way by calling the person recommended to you by name, plus the two bar associations, state and borough.
That will give you the concrete info to get something going.
Keep in mind that there are time constraints regarding appeals of any kind.
After that, a special motion has to be filed detailing why you did not bring the appeal sooner and why they should allow it to be filed late. They deny these requests routinely.
So get it into the system as soon as possible.
Just saw your post re being unable to contact that person. In the meantime, the two bar associations can definitely help you, they have Lawyer Referral Services, or the equivalent, and these have lists of people who signed up to help people in various areas of the law.
Roger that, Dave. I'm gonna jump on that ASAP. Hey, thanks for all the advice and understanding. I really appreciate it.
doc h fmf
02-06-11, 09:46 AM
I DONT THINK THE WHOLE STORY IS BEING TOLD. i had one office hour with a 250DOLLAR FINE AND iI STILL GOT AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE SO HE MUST OF SCREWED UP BAD AND THE WHOLE STORY ISNT BEING TOLD AND TO...
HOWARDROARK3043
02-06-11, 09:49 AM
what was the njp for ---i am still confused,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, PMO????? I dont slow down when you are around-------GO FIGHT CRIME AND LEAVE THE DRIVERS ALONE,,,,,,,, PMO go to the barracks and walk around,,,, stop pulling over chow hall workers and e-3's trying to flex your muscle,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,im just saying............ o wait,,,, , we cant hurt anybodies feelings anymore,,,,,,,,,,, WELL I DONT CARE,,,, ill pull over on mchugh blvd and correct a Marine,,,,, I dont care if I hold up traffic,,,
Sgt Leprechaun
02-06-11, 05:23 PM
No 'disrespect' was intended. Had a 'manup' apology not been submitted, quite frankly I would have ripped you a new azz and shut this one down.
No one, least of all me, is here to pour pizz down your back, 90 percent of the information given was given in the spirit of trying to help.
And, FYI, as an Investigator, and owner of my own PI firm as well as a 20 + year LEO, I'm not just throwing out worthless opine without knowing what the frack I'm talking about. I read military case law FOR FUN. I've got Court of Appeals opinions in the large bound volumes dating back to the 1950's when the UCMJ was first started. Consider that my 'bonafides' and my mild rebuke at the same time.
All that having been said, I think we've gone 'round the mulberry bush on this one. You have an earnest and burning desire to help your friend, which is GREAT, but only he can do what needs to be done. And sometimes, there just isn't anything to appeal. Just because someone 'feels' they are wrongly convicted doesn't mean, according to the law (which the judges have to follow) they have been. Courts of Appeals ONLY look to errors, they do NOT retry the case. Errors meaning incorrect jury instructions, violations of Constitutional rights, incompetent representation, undue command influence...there are a BUNCH of things they can, and will do (if you read the law..and by the way the Court of Military appeals does have a website and you can research caselaw there yourself...heck your buddies case may already be on there) and cases do get overturned all the time...but if your buddy has already tried twice, and been denied twice, that means the case has been looked at multiple times by multiple people....and more than likely, no 'errors' have been found.
You may not like that answer, but that is the answer that he/you are more than likely going to get, again. And just how much money is he going to keep throwing down this rabbit hole, only to get the same result? There comes a time when you have to say "F- it, lets move on".
I'll leave this one open awhile longer for intelligent commentary (and folks that does NOT include 'Hey this guy is a scumbag' stuff) and then it'll be closed for the good of the order.
Dave, as always, your posts are insightful and good stuff!
hrscowboy
02-06-11, 07:23 PM
what i would like to know have we ever found out what this party had done to get all this done to him. was this man court Marshaled or NJP no one has addressed that from what i have seen. Jag...