View Full Version : "All Marines are riflemen" Do you agree?
FutureMarine132
12-07-10, 08:27 PM
Now I hear that most pogs will never implement anything they learned from MCT. Do all marines get issued a M16 Rifle? If you wanted to go out there in the field is it a scenario where you would just have to raise your hand? I went AG Contract(Enlisted Aircrew) and because my vision isn't 20/20 I might be placed on the C-130 Gunship. I think the idea of manning the 50cal on the UH-1 is the most exhilarating/badas$ job.C-130 seems kind of squishy and that's not why I enlisted in the Marine Corps.
sparkie
12-07-10, 08:32 PM
What?
To answer the question in the topic, no. 0311 are riflemen, all Marines are trained with the rifle.
I understand its an old saying, but saying every Marine is a rifleman takes away from what a trained rifleman actually does.
That being said, I believe the idea behind the phrase is that every MOS is familiar enough with a rifle that they could get in the fight if necessary.
Wyoming
12-07-10, 08:43 PM
What?
Ditto.
Yes you will be issued a rifle and once a month you will go down to the armory and pretend to clean it then once a year you will spend a week on the range shooting it.
devilbones2
12-07-10, 10:52 PM
To answer the question in the topic, no. 0311 are riflemen, all Marines are trained with the rifle.
I understand its an old saying, but saying every Marine is a rifleman takes away from what a trained rifleman actually does.
That being said, I believe the idea behind the phrase is that every MOS is familiar enough with a rifle that they could get in the fight if necessary.
This is wrong. The training requires every Marine to be a basic rifleman. Every Marine stationed on a Marine base is issued his own rifle and must be basically qualified with it. There is a qualification that you must pass in order to use it, and therefore are basic rifleman. Its like just because you can drive a car does not make you a race car driver. There are other factors besides pointing at a paper target and applying the fundamentals, but every Marine is in fact a basic rifleman.
thezero
12-08-10, 05:00 AM
You will be on a KC-130J as we don't have AC-130's (the gunship as you call it) in the Marine Corps, there are a couple that we are testing to see if we want them, I can't remember what it is called at this time but if you do end up as air crew on C-130's you will have a long ass school in Little Rock as they are Crew Master's (Crew Chief/Load Masters)
martinj
12-08-10, 05:36 AM
This is wrong. The training requires every Marine to be a basic rifleman. Every Marine stationed on a Marine base is issued his own rifle and must be basically qualified with it. There is a qualification that you must pass in order to use it, and therefore are basic rifleman. Its like just because you can drive a car does not make you a race car driver. There are other factors besides pointing at a paper target and applying the fundamentals, but every Marine is in fact a basic rifleman.
Yes your not a race car driver but you can still effectively drive a car. And not every marine can effectively use his rifle, I have seen marines load their mags upside down and not knowing why their mag isn't seating properly.
Kegler300
12-08-10, 05:38 AM
Every Marine is a basic rifleman.
When I was in... I was trained with the M14 and later with the M16 and the 45. I qualified as an expert on all...but barely with that pos M16. Now... do I call myself a rifleman? Hell no! I was a wingnut and wouldn't even compete with our knuckledraggers out there.
If push came to shove.... I could hold my own but I would be a sad substitute for our grunts.
gungygal48
12-08-10, 07:48 AM
"Every Marine a Rifleman" is a slogan - it simply means we all had to qual with the weapon to graduate from bootcamp. Too many folks imply (wrongly) that every Marine is a skilled, well trained rifleman, not so...
martinj
12-08-10, 07:59 AM
I would rather have a ten year old with a sling shot then some of these "riflemen" covering my 6.
There is a lot of ignorance in some of the replies that you have received here.
1. Is every Marine a rifleman - well, every Marine is trained to be a rifleman - whether or not that retain that training is a different story. It is a matter or personal initiative and integrity, as well as a leadership issue.
2. If every Marine is a rifleman (or trained to be a rifleman), is that the same thing as saying that every Marine is an infantryman? No, not by a long shot. But it does mean that if it comes down to it, you are expected to fight, and fight effectively. There are no "non-combat" roles in the Marine Corps. There are jobs where the chances of seeing combat are pretty slim, but there are no guarantees.
3. Is every Marine issued an M-16? No. Many are issued pistols, some are issued SAWs, some are assigned to crew served weapons. Headquarters company has M-240s assigned to them and they are manned by non-0331s. So, you non-03 types better pay attention in MCT.
4. Do you just raise you hand if you want to go to the field? Not sure how to answer this one... seriously. There will be times when they ask for volunteers for stuff - and I'll let the other Marines here talk to you about volunteering for stuff - and there will be times when you'll pack you gear and go to the field whether you want to or not. Will you run around the woods doing mock attacks and raids like while you were at MCT? Highly doubtful. Will you lay in a basic defense, construct fighting positions, man OPs and walk guard duty? Absolutely. You're not going to have a grunt unit assigned to provide basic security at an expeditionary air field.
Now, I might be in the minority here, and if that's the case, so be it - you say that you didn't enlist in the Marine Corps to do something "squishy" like being an aircrewman on a C-130? Well, then you might have enlisted for the wrong reason. First and foremost, I hope that you enlisted in the Marine Corps to 1) serve your country, 2) be a Marine, and 3) be part of something larger than yourself. If you enlisted to be a door gunner on some type of aircraft and light stuff up like in a video game or a movie, well, you might have just made one of the biggest mistakes in your life. If that's why you enlisted, then you'll probably be one of those 10 percenters who goes through their time in the Corps *****ing and complaining about how screwed up everything is. Don't go around thinking that your MOS gives you an advantage or disadvantage when it comes time for a d*ck measuring contest. Some of the finest Marines I ever knew came from non-combat arms MOSs - aircrewmen, mechanics, motor-T --- and I thank God that we had professionals like that throughout the Corps.
My advice at this point - take some time to do some in depth research on what the duties of a Marine enlisted aircrewman actually does. Maybe things have changed since I stopped flying in the back of the old CH-46s, but I don't remember our UH-1s employing door gunners a whole lot. But I do recall these aircrewman being top notch, hard working Marines who kept those birds flying and who never hesitated to put us in anywhere or pull us out of anywhere, no matter how dangerous it was. I remember aircrewmen putting themselves in danger helping us load injured Marines on the birds and I remember them as true professionals. Of course, I remember a handful of them as sickbay commandos, whiners, and general cheesed*cks. Generally, this is a personal choice - and as one of my favorite DIs, SSgt Ruby, used to say "The choice is up to yours... so choose wisely".
Theoldgunny
12-08-10, 03:01 PM
heck no matter your mos if your ass is under fire you are a rifleman an it has happen time an time again iwo - chosen - fire bases in nan an ill even bet the gulf war and now in afgan
SGT7477
12-08-10, 03:27 PM
heck no matter your mos if your ass is under fire you are a rifleman an it has happen time an time again iwo - chosen - fire bases in nan an ill even bet the gulf war and now in afgan
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:, Semper Fidelis.
In boot camp at Parris Island or San Diego, and in the Basic School at Quantico, no one escapes from the Rifleman's Creed. Every Marine is trained, first and foremost, as a rifleman, for it is the rifleman who must close with and destroy the enemy. The rifleman remains the most basic tenet of Marine Corps doctrine. All else revolves around him. Marine Aviation, Marine Armor, Marine Artillery, and all supporting arms and warfighting assets exist to support the rifleman. It is believed that MGen. William H. Rupertus, USMC, authored the creed shortly after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. It is commonly known as the Rifleman's Creed, but it has also been called "My Rifle: The Creed of a United States Marine." Every Marine must memorize this creed. And, every Marine must live by the creed.
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than the enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, or the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit.
My rifle is human, even as I am human, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other.
Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, But Peace!
Enough Said!
Marine84
12-08-10, 08:46 PM
OOOOOOOOOOO all the testosterone! They even teach us gals how to shoot! I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn but, I believe if push came to shove, I could hit well enough. And I was an Ordie!
martinj
12-09-10, 06:32 AM
...I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn...
enough said
advanced
12-09-10, 07:28 AM
I'll agree that every Marine is trained as a rifleman and if attacked, every Marine is expected to go on line and repel the enemy. Remember, these are normally defensive positions.
However, the most fearsome understanding our enemy's have in combat against us is when they realize that before them, advancing upon them, is a company of hard core US Marines. Watching a company of grunts as they advance upon an enemy position is a thing of beauty. Every platoon, every squad, every team, every man knowing precisely what to do. No mere rifleman can do this.
Every Marine is a Rifleman!
Not every Marine Is an Infantryman! :)
Marine84
12-09-10, 03:58 PM
enough said
Whatever - get over yourself. It's like everybody says - we are ALL riflemen, all of us are NOT Infantrymen. Face it man - if somebody is coming for your throat, you're going to shoot just like me, you won't have the time to sit there, snap in and take aim. You'll shoot blindly just like anybody else.
Kegler300
12-09-10, 04:40 PM
Every Marine is still required to qualify with the M-16 annually, yes? As I stated earlier, every Marine is a basic rifleman, regardless of MOS, which is why they are required to qualify annually with their rifle to maintain basic marksmanship qualifications.
sparkie
12-09-10, 07:38 PM
My issue was a .45. I guess I was a pistolman. 84, wanna see my pistol?
Phantom Blooper
12-09-10, 07:42 PM
84, wanna see my pistol?
Marine Corps Rod & Gun Club.....
Drink to one and Pis til 2.....:beer:
sparkie
12-09-10, 07:55 PM
Wooh,, this is Ask a Marine. I think I'm in deep do-do.
martinj
12-10-10, 09:42 AM
Whatever - get over yourself. It's like everybody says - we are ALL riflemen, all of us are NOT Infantrymen. Face it man - if somebody is coming for your throat, you're going to shoot just like me, you won't have the time to sit there, snap in and take aim. You'll shoot blindly just like anybody else.
I can guarantee you that I would shoot better than you in that situation. And definitly not blindly...3 well placed shots.
Marine84
12-10-10, 11:58 AM
Honey, I would guarantee that you would too - I'm not trying to "take" anything from you or your abilities.
The definition of a rifleman is one that is skilled in the use of a rifle. Since we were all taught how to use one, I think that makes us all riflemen first. Biggest difference between you and I - you got to keep playing with your rifle and I got to go on and play with the big stuff.
OH! And your little 3 shot comment - when you can make it 1, come talk to me.
Wyoming
12-10-10, 12:05 PM
Kim, you are jousting with an E-4, with just over a year in service, that graduated bootcamp in Oct 2008, who by his own admission (profile), has never fired a shot in anger.
Get the picture?
OH! And your little 3 shot comment - when you can make it 1, come talk to me.
Basic CQB techniques - two in the chest, one in the head. It's not a lack of accuracy ("one shot - one kill" nonsense) it's SOP to make sure that they stay down.
AAV Crewchief
12-10-10, 12:07 PM
Now I hear that most pogs will never implement anything they learned from MCT. Do all marines get issued a M16 Rifle? If you wanted to go out there in the field is it a scenario where you would just have to raise your hand? I went AG Contract(Enlisted Aircrew) and because my vision isn't 20/20 I might be placed on the C-130 Gunship. I think the idea of manning the 50cal on the UH-1 is the most exhilarating/badas$ job.C-130 seems kind of squishy and that's not why I enlisted in the Marine Corps.
1) You are a jerkoff.
2) C-130 gunships as squishy? What the fukk would you know? You haven't done a day on the flight line, flown one mission and the closest you have made it to a gunship is a picture on google images. If your vision isn't 20/20 and you don't have the appropriate color vision, you won't be enlisted aircrew no matter how hard you try. BTW, when did the Marines start flying C-130 gunships? Those are all part of AFSOC.
3) Join the coasties....you will fit right in.
AAV Crewchief
12-10-10, 12:12 PM
I can guarantee you that I would shoot better than you in that situation. And definitly not blindly...3 well placed shots.
Hey Dip**** from Recon in Oki,
When I was at Schwab back in 1982(before you were even thought of I am sure) , the rifle range high score was held by a WM and that is a no **** truth. If you don't like it, pack sand. That weapon is no respecter of rank or gender.
AAV Crewchief
12-10-10, 12:14 PM
My issue was a .45. I guess I was a pistolman. 84, wanna see my pistol?
There is some double entendre in that statement for sure....:)
FutureMarine132
12-10-10, 03:19 PM
1) You are a jerkoff.
2) C-130 gunships as squishy? What the fukk would you know? You haven't done a day on the flight line, flown one mission and the closest you have made it to a gunship is a picture on google images. If your vision isn't 20/20 and you don't have the appropriate color vision, you won't be enlisted aircrew no matter how hard you try. BTW, when did the Marines start flying C-130 gunships? Those are all part of AFSOC.
3) Join the coasties....you will fit right in.
Lol you sound like a grumpy old man.. relax. First person perspective is obviously more efficient. But the way your talking to me, thats like saying a brain surgeon has to have a brain tumor in order to know what hes doing. I don't know much about Marine Corps aviation yes this is correct, I'm learning. You probably don't know much about music production and recording and if you asked a question about it I wouldn't respond like I was on the rag. I never said I had color deficiencies and what you told me is false from everything I've read and what my recruiter has told me. Join the coastguard? LOL you have no idea of what kind of person I am so how can you blindly tell me that? But hey thanks for all the responses I appreciate the feedback guys.
Kegler300
12-10-10, 03:38 PM
Hey Dip**** from Recon in Oki,
When I was at Schwab back in 1982(before you were even thought of I am sure) , the rifle range high score was held by a WM and that is a no **** truth. If you don't like it, pack sand. That weapon is no respecter of rank or gender.
I hated that rifle range...
AAV Crewchief
12-10-10, 09:39 PM
Lol you sound like a grumpy old man.. relax. First person perspective is obviously more efficient. But the way your talking to me, thats like saying a brain surgeon has to have a brain tumor in order to know what hes doing. I don't know much about Marine Corps aviation yes this is correct, I'm learning. You probably don't know much about music production and recording and if you asked a question about it I wouldn't respond like I was on the rag. I never said I had color deficiencies and what you told me is false from everything I've read and what my recruiter has told me. Join the coastguard? LOL you have no idea of what kind of person I am so how can you blindly tell me that? But hey thanks for all the responses I appreciate the feedback guys.
If you don't like what I am telling you, feel free to go to the MUSIC website. This is a MARINE website, not a FaggOT aZZed "don't ask don't tell" supporter site. You are going to learn that most of what that recruiter tells you is BS and you are just another quota he/she has to fill. Hell, more than half the recruiters weren't even in Combat Arms MOS slots. My recruiter was a COMM pogue. If you want to be on a true gunship you will have to join the Air Force. Try Googling images of AC-130H gunships and see what the hell is written on the side of them aside from some catchy nose art when the crew can get away with it. Since you are a musician, I doubt you will want to dirty your hands in some real work like infantry because that is what infantry is...a LOT of work. You can't show up at SOI and half-step your way to becoming proficient at that job. From what you've written in your initial post, it looks like you've half-stepped through life. That won't cut it in the Corps where people's lives depend upon doing things right the first time because in an infantry unit or flying on whatever airframe you are assigned to, mistakes cause people to die.
For you though...try the Marine Corps band....
advanced
12-11-10, 07:17 AM
Lol you sound like a grumpy old man.. relax. First person perspective is obviously more efficient. But the way your talking to me, thats like saying a brain surgeon has to have a brain tumor in order to know what hes doing. I don't know much about Marine Corps aviation yes this is correct, I'm learning. You probably don't know much about music production and recording and if you asked a question about it I wouldn't respond like I was on the rag. I never said I had color deficiencies and what you told me is false from everything I've read and what my recruiter has told me. Join the coastguard? LOL you have no idea of what kind of person I am so how can you blindly tell me that? But hey thanks for all the responses I appreciate the feedback guys.
This kid will go far as a Marine - NOT!
AAV Crewchief
12-11-10, 10:29 AM
You will be on a KC-130J as we don't have AC-130's (the gunship as you call it) in the Marine Corps, there are a couple that we are testing to see if we want them, I can't remember what it is called at this time but if you do end up as air crew on C-130's you will have a long ass school in Little Rock as they are Crew Master's (Crew Chief/Load Masters)
It is the same school that any crew member flying on a C-130 goes to. I fit all of our new guys up with their helmets, 02 masks, and the like before they attend. The difference in the Marine and AF model is that the Marine model does not have the fire power that the AF model has. The Corps decided to save money and have their C-130s adapted almost like interchangable "lego-block" configurations. It can haul trash -cargo runs or it can be quickly made into a gunship. AF gunships cannot "trash haul". There is no room and they are not taken apart to fit a specific mission. When an AF AC-130 heads out, it is for one purpose...kill whatever the guys on the ground asked to be killed. I hate to say it, but if you have played Call To Duty 4 and the gunship mission...it is not totally realistic, but damn close.
AAV Crewchief
12-11-10, 10:34 AM
I would rather have a ten year old with a sling shot then some of these "riflemen" covering my 6.
Real badass huh? All of a sudden you can judge who can shoot and who cannot. Where did you receive your baptism under fire?
dback13
12-11-10, 10:45 AM
Real badass huh? All of a sudden you can judge who can shoot and who cannot. Where did you receive your baptism under fire?
How about yours?
Muhreen4Lyfe
12-11-10, 02:52 PM
All Marines should be expected the qualify with a rifle, that doesn't make pogue mcfvckstick proficient in infantry tactics, it just means he can shoot a rifle in a stress-free environment at a piece of paper.
mikesmith03
06-09-11, 11:31 AM
Hey Dip**** from Recon in Oki,
When I was at Schwab back in 1982(before you were even thought of I am sure) , the rifle range high score was held by a WM and that is a no **** truth. If you don't like it, pack sand. That weapon is no respecter of rank or gender.
what a badass wm. she is able to shoot at a paper target better then other marines. the rifle range is nothing like actual combat. ive seen "experts" out shot by "marksman"
Old Marine
06-09-11, 12:36 PM
Yes your not a race car driver but you can still effectively drive a car. And not every marine can effectively use his rifle, I have seen marines load their mags upside down and not knowing why their mag isn't seating properly.
I will venture to say that not every grunt is proficient with the rifle. Just because you are a grunt does not mean that a person is the best rifle shot there is.
I would imigine that a grunt would have a hard time loading adding machine paper into an adding machine or doing many jobs that the Corps has these days.:evilgrin:
USMC-SSGT
06-09-11, 01:55 PM
I think the basic saying also stems from the fact that you are a "rifleman" first and foremost. Just because you are in the band or a cook or comm does not mean you will not find yourself in a combat arms position overseas. No job is safe from combat arms and every Marine must remember that regardless of what you choose or where you go or what you do, you are first and foremost a Marine Rifleman. Same wording but different than an 0311 or any infantryman. No non-03 Marine can claim that label.
Me for example. I was a comm Marine with the basic weapons quals of my once per month "cleaning" and annual visit to the range (besides short stint in Western Division Matches).
My security clearance was held up so I deployed under IMHG instead of with my unit. I ended up doing a tour of convoy security, force protection and quick reaction force in the Al Anbar Province. I am by no means a trained salty war dog but it just reinforces my point...I was a Comm man who thought id never see the outside of my tent...needs of the Corps, needs of the Corps.
advanced
06-09-11, 04:35 PM
The biggest difference between shooting at paper targets and the real thing is that the real thing shoots back. No, those aren't bees buzzing around your head.
I'm glad every Marine is a rifleman and will be on the line if need be. But you must agree it has to be somewhat comforting to know that we are already outside the wire doing business before they ever get to you.
Imagine being on a different line, a line of front line Marine Infantry assaulting enemy positions for 3 solid non-stop weeks suffering heavy casualties. Ya'll have to admit, that takes a little more than being able to notch a V in a paper target. Just saying there brothers. S/F
afraziaaaa
06-09-11, 05:27 PM
Now I hear that most pogs will never implement anything they learned from MCT. Do all marines get issued a M16 Rifle? If you wanted to go out there in the field is it a scenario where you would just have to raise your hand? I went AG Contract(Enlisted Aircrew) and because my vision isn't 20/20 I might be placed on the C-130 Gunship. I think the idea of manning the 50cal on the UH-1 is the most exhilarating/badas$ job.C-130 seems kind of squishy and that's not why I enlisted in the Marine Corps.
You are going to fail out of aircrew school because you will panic in the water. "HELP MEEEEEEE!!! HELP MEEEE!". Don't worry, it's a "Drop On Request" program. You can quit at any time.
Swampfox
06-09-11, 06:21 PM
If I were commanding a military unit that was at war against the U.S. and I was given a choice to assault an Army, Air Force or Marine Airfield I can tell you with absolute certainty that I would not f*kk with the Marine Airfield. Why??? Because the Marines will put up the biggest fight. Let's not forget that we're all on the same side here. Is every Marine a Basic Rifleman? Absolutely. Is every Marine an advanced rifleman? Absolutely not. I wasn't a grunt but break into my house in the middle of the night and see what happens.